Aggressive behavior

[grumpy55]

Which of the Apistogramma and Dwarf Cichlids species are aggressive toward other fish/tankmates ?

 

[grumpy55]

Surely someone has some insight on this.

 

[Sharpfish]

Under what circumstances? Are there breeding pairs, or just males of one species or multiple species in a display tank? That answer may be hard to come by with so many variables.

 

[oldschool]

The answer is relative Grumpy as sharpfish pointed out to you. Non breeding Apistos and dwarfs can be very peaceful but when they get to sexual maturity they will become territorial. When they have fry to defend it gets even worse. laetacara dorsigers is said to be a very peaceful fish yet i had a pair kill an entire shoal of neons when they began breeding and this in a 65 gallon tank.

Most tank bred Apistos are also more docile. wilds can be very aggressive when compared to tank bred, especially tank bred ones that have been inbred for many generations like the ones from Czech breeders. Their is no clear cut answer to your question it all depends on many variables. In time and with experience the answer will become more clear to you.

 

[grumpy55]

The tank in question is a 72 gallon bow-front (48 inches long) with "decorations" and plenty of driftwood.

four (4) Apistogramma Cacatuoides (probably three males)
four (4) Apistogramma nijsseni (one female)

No obvious breeding behavior.

I put in about a dozen Otocinclus, which were all dead within two days.

 

[Mike Wise]

I've had female cocatoos kill tetras that got too 'nosy'. Nijsseni are even more aggressive, plus being bonded pairs when breeding, they can do double damage. Apistos are, after all, cichlids and like most cichlids will aggressively protect their territory. As for your experience with Otos, it isn't that uncommon for mass losses. They have a reputation for not doing well when moved to new environments. I doubt that your apistos took all of them out in such a short period.

 

[grumpy55]

Thank-you Mike.

I put about 24 otos from the same batch into my 125 gallon, and THEY are doing very well, and are doing a great job on the algae.

 

[dw1305]

Otocinclus

Hi all,
As the other Otos from the batch are surviving, I think it is a water quality issue in the tank. I know a lot die when first introduced, probably because of stress, ill treatment and not being fed at the LFS, before you purchased them.

I think the problem with Otocinclus is that because they are cheap to buy people think that they are easy to keep, but actually they are difficult to keep healthy and require a mature, planted tank, lots of flow/oxygen, and very good water quality.

I always think of mine as little Baryancistrus (Gold Nugget Plec) and treat them accordingly.

The other thing I've found is that they really like resting on vertical bamboo canes, I find a cane where the diameter of the cane is a little wider then the girth of the Oto, and they will rest on the cane during the day, you can also fix your vegetable supplement to the cane as well, and that way they are almost certain to find it.

As for their algae eating qualities, I think that these are probably overstated, as they preferentially eat diatoms, and not a lot else. I think in nearly any size of tank there life span is likely to be fairly limited unless they can be persuaded to eat a supplementary food source - usually vegetables. I know some people have had success feeding them algal wafers, mine have always ignored them, but they do eat cucumber or courgette and I put a new slice in every 48 hours. I've had my present ones for 4 years together with A. cacatuoides, and the cichlids totally ignore them.

Personally I wish they had an L. number and sold for £20 each and then people would only purchase them if they really wanted them.

cheers Darrel

 

[oldschool]

Guys,

Just wanted to make a quick point. First of all I agree 110% about your assessment about the Otto’s Darrell however they are producing Otto's by the zillions now in Florida so I would gather that these tank bred ones are far easier to keep then the wild ones. I don't know if you have access to these but these would be a good choice as they are much hardier then the wilds.

 

[dw1305]

Hi Oldschool,
Sorry it did come over as a bit negative, and that wasn't what I meant.
I'm not sure about all the ones we get in the UK, there still seems to be a range of species appearing at the LFS, against that they are really cheap (often less than £2 each), so I imagine they are mainly/all bred in Asia somewhere.

Do you know if they pond bred in Florida? I've seen mine spawn like Cories,(in a T and leave the eggs in a batch) but there are very few reports of hobbiest tank raised ones and these eggs never hatched (mine I have spawned successfully before but I didn't have any input, I didn't realise they had spawned until the surviving fry were quite big).

cheers Darrel

 

[oldschool]

Darrel,

I didn't think anything you said was negative but spot on, I agree Otto’s are often sold as easy fish and as many of us are aware they are not.


The ones being bred in Florida are being produced in many different ways. There is one operation that is doing them under more controlled conditions and they are not using ponds at all but closed systems with high tech filtration and some flow through of well water. This is the same company producing Cardinal Tetra's, Neons, Harlequin Rasboras and many others.

Other operations are breeding them in vats and then transferring the fry to ponds for grow out. The survival rates of both are very good and they are both very robust fish. I would imagine the ones grown indoors are better quality and have fewer disease problems. Wholesale these fish are available through Segrest Farms and a few other Florida wholesalers that I know of. I am sure they are available from other sources as well but those are the ones I know of personally.

The one company that was producing the high quality Otto's , that also produces cardinals and other high quality fish, began breeding them but now other operations with perhaps a bit less emphasis on quality have gotten in the game now too. As with anything I feel you get what you pay for, from what I hear they are easy to produce in big numbers commercially so I imagine the prices will come down and they will become more popular now as well thanks to the higher survival rates. I remember as a kid when I use to get 12 cardinal tetra’s for a dollar. Now a Cardinal goes for $4 each but they are tank bred and you have a near 100% survival rate. I hope the trend for better quality tank bred fish continues so we can preserve the native populations of our fish. I say this in regards to fish like Cardinals and neons who can be overfished not Apistogramma and other dwarf Cichlids which I feel are collected in low numbers and for the most part find their way to hardcore nuts like us who will teat them like beloved petsJ Cheers m8

 

[oldschool]

Darrel,

I just checked the Florida Bred Otto's are sold for $165 for a box of 300 otto's that is .55 cents a piece. So I would imagine the price will range from $2 to $5 each in pet shops depending on how many dealers they go through. Hope that is of help.