A. panduro spawned!!

[aarhud]

I lifted the pot to double check. I really did not think these guys would spawn for me until I got my RO water and peat going. Daily feedings with BBS really turned their mood. I did a 30% water change last night.
I post ranges on the water values because the API kit is so hard to read.
EC- 217 uS
pH-6.8 to 7.2
gKH- 1 to 3
gGH- 3 to 5

Now I have a dilema, let the female try to raise the fry in a 55g with 2m3f A. panduro, or try to pull the pot and female. I was in a catch 22, I was worried about pulling a pair out of my group because I read panduro were picky about mates, but now I have to worry about fry being eaten.




http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/ahudmultie/photo2_zpsf4c1355d.jpg

http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/ahudmultie/photo1_zpsa42809fa.jpg

 

[Mike Wise]

A 55 should be large enough for your female to successfully raise her fry, but it really depends on what other fish are in the tank, other than the panduros. Personally, I never like to artificially raise apisto fry.

 

[aarhud]

I moved the dithers out of the tank. Only thing in there are the other panduro, and a lone borelli male. I need to remove the borelli too, but hes been tough to catch.

Still not decided if I'm going to siphon wrigglers or not, I have never raised apisto fry away from mom. One the bright side, the male is helping out with territorial defense a little.

 

[Jmty]

how do you use the peat to lower the ph?don't it get to the water. peat filters to water try several options with no luck???? thanks

 

[aarhud]

I have not had to use peat yet. But I'm going to use the 55g drum method if I find out I need it.

 

[aarhud]

A. panduro are a lot more aggressive than I anticipated. I had to remove one female. Everything was fine until the female moved the fry to another pot. The new pot was close to another females territory. The male is the problem, he is taking his perimeter guarding job seriously.

Do you think a "line in the sand" will be drawn once another pair is formed?

 

[aarhud]

Fry went free swimming today. Sorry for the crappy pictures. I always find my most recent apistogramma is usually my favorite, but there really is something about panduro that stands out. The females pattern is amazing and I love how the female and male work together. I was skeptical about the male helping out with brood care, but he really does defend the perimeter and is also allowed around the fry.

 

[Jmty]

congrats and good luck with the fry

 

[aarhud]

My fry numbers dwindled again....I'm getting really frustrated. I suppose either the 3 other panduro or one male borelli could have snacked on some?

For those of you that have bred A. panduro, would I be fine moving the pair to a 10 gallon tank for breeding?

 

[Jmty]

i had left them with the parents with no problem,i had also put guppy fry in the tank with different apistos and they don't bather them,did kill a lot of fry cleaning and changing water ,trial and error ,currently have all my apistos in 10g.

 

[aarhud]

Water changes are the only thing I can think of that could be causing my deaths. I fed these fry pretty heavily compared to the A. borelli fry I lost. I don't have anywhere to conveniently age my tap water, but I may have to figure something out. I'm getting really frustrated going from 30-40 fry down to 5-10 all in a few days time.

 

[Jmty]

I'm with you on that but I'm" learning as i kill" now i just do a 10% water change and use a air line hose to refill the tank , had made the difference in fry survival .Of course you will loose some fry for unknown reason , make sure water temp. is about the same 1-2 degrees off , i don't have all the answer not an expert but as i said learning as i kill,too bad is with my apistos,currently had blue pibas fry,masken and nannacara aurephalous the last one is in 50g some how cannot manage the fry feeding and lost several i had not other fish in there but is too big of a tank to really feed the fry the way i do ,trial and error again.SO YOU ARE NOT ALONE IN THIS.

 

[aarhud]

I have about 10 fry still. I noticed a TON of micro bubbles after my water changes, the fry look like they pick at them. Sometimes the tank looks cloudy depending on how much water I replace. That could well have been part of my problem. I picked up a sprayer to attach to my fill up hose, and it seems to take care of the bubbles. Will see if that helps with fry mortality. I also lowered the amount of water I am changing until I can figure out a way to age the water.

 

[Jmty]

hope they all survive.

 

[aarhud]

Thanks Jmty.

I think what is left is going to make it. They are big enough to eat grindal worms now. Ended up with a measly 3 panduro and 6 A. borellii. Heres to the next batch

 

[gerald]

Is it really the bubbles in the water that harm the fish, or are the bubbles just a symptom of gas super-saturation that harms them (coming out of solution as micro-bubbles in their blood vessels)? Anybody got info? I guess this would be a bigger problem in winter, when the water temperature at the treatment plant (using lake or river water) is cold and has more dissolved gases. Once it enters the distribution pipes (pressurized and not exposed to air) it can't equilibrate with air until it emerges from your faucet (or hose).

 

[aarhud]

I found a post or two searching the forum that the bubbles are a symptom of super-saturation. Ted Judy was the one who mentioned it. I think you are spot on with your explanation. Since aerating the water prior to water changes removes the micro bubbles. My problem is I don't have anywhere to aerate large amounts of water. I'm considering using one of my 55g tanks as a reservoir.

The panduro have another batch of eggs. This time I'm going to move the fry at 3-4 weeks of age into a ten gallon. I can handle aerating water for smaller tanks.

 

[gerald]

OK here's a wacky idea that just might work: Take a bucket or plastic trash can, cut a hole in the bottom and jam a short piece of 1-inch diam vinyl tubing or PVC in it, fill with styrofoam packing peanuts or any other lighweight material (pot scrubbers, plastic mesh onion bags, etc), set it on top of the tank to be filled, and run the tap water into the top of the bucket so the water trickles over the media, allowing gases to equilibrate before water enters the fish tank. If it falls off the tank while filling, dont blame me. Good luck with the new fry!

 

[aarhud]

Everything is going good so far with fry. I cut way back on water changes on the tanks with fry. I do 1 gallon changes at a time with aerated water on the 10g tank growout. Every few days I take out all of the pvc pipes and clay pots to do a good siphon on the bottom. I can't believe how mean apisto fry are at such a young age. The young A. borelli and A. panduro are already tail swiping and flaring at each other.

My panduro pair killed an A. borelli male today that I had housed with them in their 55g tank. I'm surprised they killed him, there was not a nipped fin on him until today when I found him dead. The tank is packed with pots, java moss, and wood. On a brighter note, the extra panduro produced another pair, so I now have two. Best luck I have had with fish, five fish total and two pairs formed. I moved the second female and pot to another tank and she is now ignoring the pot . But if this spawn does not work out, I can move the male in with her in a few weeks.

I'm finding it odd that A. panduro seems so willing to spawn, but A. borelli does not.

 

[aarhud]

Update:

The female panduro is back in her pot. REALLY hoping she takes back over and hatches me a nice group of fry.