Another tank size vs. fish numbers question...but regarding "best" species?

[StillLearningApistos]

Hey, everyone.

Been a minute since I've posted, but that wasn't intentional. I'll start by saying thank you to everyone who commented on my previous threads (honest replies or smart ass ones, all are appreciated...HA!). I've been very successful at spawning and raising A. borellii, A. cacatuoides, and A. panduro, some as a result of your all's help. Borellii and panduro are in 20 gallon longs, and cacatuoides in a 40 breeder.

A bit of history related to my incoming question. What got me started in South American cichlids, and cichlids in general, were Rams. I bred a pair of GBR in a 30 gallon tank for a while, then the female finally died. I decided I wanted to do a nice looking "blackwater inspired" 60 gallon aquarium, and in doing so I put the male in there, along with another black ram male and three females. Since then, the black male dies and one of the females died. The remaining seem to have zero interest in breeding. SO, I'm thinking of pulling the remaining rams and putting them in another smaller tank, and using the 60 gallon "blackwater inspired" tank for some Apistogramma.

So here's the question. I know that a 60 gallon tank is large, relative to the size of Apistogramma, but I was curious of your all's opinion on whether it would be best to but a few female cacatuoides and a male in there, or a harem of borellii, or maybe a different species all together? To date, the only ones I've bred are those mentioned above. I know everyone seems to love cacatuoides, and I do too, but was curious on other's thoughts here. I ask here, because I know a few of you have tried various things and kept a LOT of different species.

Thanks in advance, and sorry if you all get tired of this type of question/think it's stupid. Either way, I appreciate it!

 

[MacZ]

I reiterate the Mike WIse Mantra: A display tank is not a breeding tank.

or maybe a different species all together?

Yes. There are so many more fitting species than A. cacatuoides and A. borellii, I don't even know where to start.
Although blackwater to me screams many other genera before thinking of Apistogramma.

I know everyone seems to love cacatuoides,

The domestic ones are ubiquitous, ugly, ridden with genetic bottleneck problems due to inbreeding and linebreeding and health problems.
Wild ones I would want to to get one day.

 

[nikolerock]

Still Learning, I am planning on breeding some Opal Borellii. I've got a mated pair that keeps spawning in my community tank. I've ordered a 20 long to act as both a breeding and grow out tank. It's not really large enough for a grow out tank, but I'll plan on a lot of water changes and a slower growth rate. If it doesn't work out, I am only in it for the enjoyment so not a big deal. My hope is to remove the parents after the fry are free swimming and put them back into the community tank. I've got four nano tanks and do not have a lot of real estate. We have no local supply of Apsistos in my area, and a local local reef store that has started getting into fresh water planted tanks will pay a fair price for each fish. I've specifically chosen Borellii because our water is on the hard side and I prefer low tech tanks with no RO or Co2. They seem to do better in hard water than the Agassizii. I've also found them to be less aggressive and less shy then the Agassizii. I never got into German Rams because they just aren't healthy enough. I did a lot of research that directed me to the Opal Borellii as a good alternative. I kept African cichlids for 20 years prior to migrating into nano planted aquariums. I have not been disappointed. Hongsloi are next on my list of Apsitos. Unfortunate about the arrogant and rude response.....not really sure why the topic of fish keeping would warrant a condescending attitude. I love the hobby and have been a fish keeper for 33 years but it is not a topic that triggers my ego.............maybe the insanity of this world makes me put fish keeping in perspective. Keep it light, enjoy your fish and I'd love to hear from anyone who enjoys learning and keeping Apsitos.
Nikole

 

[StillLearningApistos]

I reiterate the Mike WIse Mantra: A display tank is not a breeding tank.


Yes. There are so many more fitting species than A. cacatuoides and A. borellii, I don't even know where to start.
Although blackwater to me screams many other genera before thinking of Apistogramma.


The domestic ones are ubiquitous, ugly, ridden with genetic bottleneck problems due to inbreeding and linebreeding and health problems.
Wild ones I would want to to get one day.

I’m glad that you reiterate that a display tank isn’t a breeding tank. Not sure why you reiterate it…I said nothing about a display tank…‍???

“Blackwater inspired” and “Blackwater” are two different things. Happy it screams other genera to you, though. Again…‍???

Sorry you think the domestic A. cacatuoides are ugly. I think some of them are pretty cool. I just meant that I was looking for other suggestions, which you offered nothing in the way of. AGAIN…‍???

Thanks though…???

 

[StillLearningApistos]

Still Learning, I am planning on breeding some Opal Borellii. I've got a mated pair that keeps spawning in my community tank. I've ordered a 20 long to act as both a breeding and grow out tank. It's not really large enough for a grow out tank, but I'll plan on a lot of water changes and a slower growth rate. If it doesn't work out, I am only in it for the enjoyment so not a big deal. My hope is to remove the parents after the fry are free swimming and put them back into the community tank. I've got four nano tanks and do not have a lot of real estate. We have no local supply of Apsistos in my area, and a local local reef store that has started getting into fresh water planted tanks will pay a fair price for each fish. I've specifically chosen Borellii because our water is on the hard side and I prefer low tech tanks with no RO or Co2. They seem to do better in hard water than the Agassizii. I've also found them to be less aggressive and less shy then the Agassizii. I never got into German Rams because they just aren't healthy enough. I did a lot of research that directed me to the Opal Borellii as a good alternative. I kept African cichlids for 20 years prior to migrating into nano planted aquariums. I have not been disappointed. Hongsloi are next on my list of Apsitos. Unfortunate about the arrogant and rude response.....not really sure why the topic of fish keeping would warrant a condescending attitude. I love the hobby and have been a fish keeper for 33 years but it is not a topic that triggers my ego.............maybe the insanity of this world makes me put fish keeping in perspective. Keep it light, enjoy your fish and I'd love to hear from anyone who enjoys learning and keeping Apsitos.
Nikole

I’m not sure, either. Happens with one or two of those that reply. Doesn’t matter to me. I tend to keep it pretty light on my end.

Thanks for the reply, though! There are a couple here that I value the opinions of, though they’re usually not dicks…haha (oh, don’t get caught laughing here, either. I was told once by someone that it isn’t appreciated, or some ****…HAHAHA!)

Anyway, I love my borellii. Female is currently sitting with eggs now, actually! Good luck with yours! I may put some in the 60 gallon tank I mentioned above. We’ll see!

 

[MacZ]

I’m glad that you reiterate that a display tank isn’t a breeding tank. Not sure why you reiterate it…I said nothing about a display tank…‍???

Oh you did. Indirectly. Is your aim a tank with breeding fish or not? If you say you want to add several females and males or a harem situation you will get breeding activity. And a lot of possible stress factors. Brooding female Apistogramma can terrorize whole tanks, they can also become stressed to death. In a display tank all of this is not your problem. So by reiterating the mantra I was hinting at that.

“Blackwater inspired” and “Blackwater” are two different things. Happy it screams other genera to you, though. Again…‍???

I know. And going by this, while some populations of A. cacatuoides do occur in blackwater, that's quite far away from A. borellii's habitats, so it doesn't make much sense putting them in a blackwater tank even if it's faux blackwater. You wouldn't put Neon tetras in a tank designed for Malawi cichlids either, wouldn't you?
I'd go for A. diplotaenia or A. elizabethae probably. Maybe A. mendezi. Or for completely other genera like Dicrossus or Ivanacara. Fish that fit the habitat you're recreating visually.

Also: I gave you hints what to look for, you wanted explicit suggestions obviously. I did't think of that, because it limits you to what people offer.

Sorry you think the domestic A. cacatuoides are ugly. I think some of them are pretty cool. I just meant that I was looking for other suggestions, which you offered nothing in the way of. AGAIN…‍???

Maybe you were blending out what else I said, which basically was: You might not be very happy with them for long as they tend to drop dead quickly.

I may come across a bit too straight to the point for you and sometimes expect people to follow my thoughts better than they actually do. No reason to become spiteful about that.