wild Baenschi

[PAL]

This is a plea for help. I am due to receive a delivery of wild caught Ap. Baenschi direct to my home. They will not undergo a quarantine period at the UK distributer for reasons that are too complicated to go into. The fish are to be placed in a specially prepared 50 gal tank with many roots and is densely planted. The only fish in it are Rummy Nose, Cardinal and Golden Tetra.
Should they be treated for parasites before introduction to the 50 gal tank?
Is treatment always done regardless of the health of the fish?
What is the most suitable medication?
I am just returning to the hobby after a 15 year break and no longer have any contacts that have the Apisto addiction.

Any advice will be very much appreciated

 

[Mike Wise]

First, I moved this post to a more appropriate part of the site. I think you'll get more responses here.

As for your A. baenschi, how many fish are you getting? Do you have an unoccupied tank that can be used as a quarantine tank?

IMHO it is just plain crazy to add any new fish to a large established community tank without a period of quarantine - especially one that is densely planted. At best the fish will arrive healthy and quickly adapt to you aquarium. At worst, they will arrive stressed from a week or more of overcrowding and no food, infested with internal and external diseases/parasites, and unable to properly breathe due to eroded gill membranes from high ammonia, from being shipped too dense. Such fish could introduce something nasty into your beautiful tank and fish. Treating a large tanks is expensive. Some of the pharmaceutical will disrupt the biological filtration, cause stress in healthy fish, and damage the plants.
In such cases it would be less expensive if all the fish were dead on arrival.
I personally never put any new fish in an established community/breeding tank until they are quarantined at least 4-6 weeks. The new fish are able to acclimate in a lower stress environment away from other fish. The fish are easier to examine for problem. Any problems can be more safely and inexpensively worked on in a smaller quarantine tank. If the worst happens and all of the new fish die from some problem, it is much easier to sterilize a quarantine tank and equipment than an established planted tank.

Now, if you don't have a quarantine tank (a simple bare 10 gallon aquarium with only a sponge filter, heater, and some plastic pvc tubing for hiding places, and no or subdued lighting) then you will have to put them in your aquarium and pray for the best. To me, a quarantine tank is the cheapest insurance you can buy.

 

[bigbird]

Morning,

I agree with Mike. Your cardinals, rummy nose and golden tetras are worth a bit. Buy yourself a second small heater, a sponge filter, some hidding spots, no bottom or plants. Then I would use an all around medication at half dose and repeat after 1week. Quarantine for 3-4weeks. Feed as per normal and do the regular water changes. 1-2 days before placing in the main tank, replace 30% of the quarantine water with the main tank water for acclimitisation. If you are unable to afford a glass tank, I sometimes use the plastic large 30liter bottles they use for the water fountains in the office . Cutt off the top for easy access and also cover up again and voila it even comes with a handle. I honestly can advise you not to risk a possible infestation of foreing parasites etc cheers and good luck jk :biggrin:

 

[PAL]

Thanks Mike both for relocating my post (oops!:redface and for the sound advice. Also my thanks to Bigbird for adding to your comments.
I have purchased a 24X15X15 tank and will comply with your recommendations. The shipment should contain up to 20 fish comprising of a mix of sexes with a bias of 3:1 towards the females, though what actually arrives may be completely different. The fish should be around 1.75'' long. I expect some fatalities. The landscape of the main tank has been designed to cater for three male territories with each area having at least three caves (a mixture of rocks and coconut sections). This assumes the fish are polygamous. I therefore hope to have three alpha males and 9 females. Any fish that become stressed through aggression will be re-housed in other tanks or offered to local shops. The best laid plans of mice and men!!!!!!!
From your comments I deduct that the typical parasites and diseases these fish may have contracted have a life cycle of 4 weeks therefore treatment should be applied regardless. This concerns me somewhat as I am not a fan of chemicals other than as a last result. Remedies in the UK are limited and Apistogramma are not popular so I intend to apply treatments that are recommended for Discus.
Once again many thanks and if you regard my intentions as misguided or plain stupid, don't hesitate to tell me.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,
PAL wrote "This assumes the fish are polygamous", many Apistogramma are, but baenschii, panduro etc. are usually pair forming so you may have to re-house the spare females, one pairs have formed.
cheers Darrel

 

[PAL]

Thanks for the info Darrel.
It looks that I have a lot to learn about these fish although I have kept and spawned other members of the Nijsenni group many years ago, most of the literature I have read about Baenschi was a bit vague on the matter.
Well at least I should end up with a few compatible pairs.
Is this info gained from personnel experience or is there a definitive source of data on this fish that you could recommend?
Regards...Phil

 

[Mike Wise]

In a tank with a bottom area of 24x15" it is unusual to keep more than one breeding pair in such a small tank without total mayhem, or it being so choked with cover that the fish (and you) never see each other. Your best bet might be to pull pairs as they form and put each in a smaller tank.

The quarantine period is only used to not introduce problems into established tanks. Usually, after a month with no diseases, the fish are healthy enough to handle most problems by themselves. If something happens before, it is easier and less expensive to treat in a bare quarantine tank.

 

[PAL]

Hi Mike,
Sorry if I have misled you, but the heavily planted and rooted, species tank, is a 50 gal tank 40"X20"X"20". The 24"X15"X15" has been purchased as a quarantine tank. I had anticipated the need for quarantining but was unsure. I thought your advice about using cut lengths of plastic tubes in the Q tank as a great idea. I have used sawn lengths of 1.375"domestic water pipes and sawn sections of 5" diameter pipe both of which were hiding in my garden shed.
Regards
Phil

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,
Phil wrote:

"Is this info gained from personnel experience or is there a definitive source of data on this fish that you could recommend? "

The answer is i) no, I've read it, and ii) Probably this forum, and particularly Mike Wise. Here's a post from earlier in 2009, but a search for "baenschi" will bring up plenty more.

<http://www.forum.apistogramma.com/showthread.php?t=6220&highlight=baenschi>

My other recommendation is "ApistoBobs" web site, Bob is a member here and his web site is always my "go to" when I'm not sure about a fish.
<http://www.dwarfcichlid.com/index.php>

In this case Bob doesn't have any information for A. baenschi, but he does for A. panduro. <http://www.dwarfcichlid.com/Apistogramma_panduro.php>.

cheers Darrel

 

[steph]

A. baenschi harem

HI

I have a trio of A. baenschi in a community tank, and both females have spawned several times with the one male. The females have been great carers with the more dominant female caring and herding her fry for more than a month, they were about 8mm and definately 'fish' shaped not fry shaped at that age. Unfortunately being a community tank with a lot of bigger fish not many fry have survived.

Tank is a 4ft (48 x 14 x 16) heavily planted with crypts and several territories divided by logs.

ciao

steph

 

[fishgeek]

phil you can or should be able to source
ceda praz a praziquantel for fish distributed by tmc ... useful against cestodes and flukes
flubendazol as kusuri wormer plus and a few other uk available names, for nemtodes and flukes
and dimetronidazol from waterlife as either protozin or octozin i always get confused which one ... it is the tablet formulation sold by watyerlife