Best way to pair fish...

[JasonC]

Hi,

So I have been growing out (now) 8 A. Baenschi in a 20L. Til the beginning of the week, i was looking like I had the bad luck of a sorority tank, but one of the smallest has finally started showing signs of being male. Obviously, I need to get rid of most of the other females in the tank as, from what I understand, A. Baenschi is not a harem spawner, nor is a 20L anywhere near enough room for that many females if they were.

I have read that Baenschi are kind of picky as to who they partner off with, so, my question is, with that many females in the tank, what is the best strategy going forward to get a good match, and what should I be looking for in order to spot it?

Thanks!!!

 

[Mike Wise]

If it were me, I would let the male decide which female(s) in which he is interested and only then remove the rest. You will know when the male stays close to only one (maybe more) females.

 

[Tom C]

According to my humble knowledge it would be more precise to say: let's see which female(s) who is interested in him.....
Practically the same as Mike says; let them sort it out themselves. But I believe that normally it's the females that choose the partner among Apistos.... or am I wrong (again)?

 

[Mike Wise]

Tom is correct. Apisto females choose the male.

 

[Melanochromis]

I've had frustrating experience with trying to pair up Inka. It took months, if not forever, for some "pairs" to actually accept each other. It's much much easier to put a lot of fish together and let them pick their own choice. Just remove each pair to another tank once you notice them.

Interestingly, my female Inkas show more interest in breeding than the males at most times. It's the male that usually refuses to participate and instead chases the eager female away. Occasionally, I also get "lesbian" pairs that lay eggs, probably because the males in the same tank are acting asexually. So, my opinion on Inka is probably different, but I believe you should let the male Inka choose his female - he's the picky one.

 

[apistodave]

I've had frustrating experience with trying to pair up Inka. It took months, if not forever, for some "pairs" to actually accept each other. It's much much easier to put a lot of fish together and let them pick their own choice. Just remove each pair to another tank once you notice them.

Interestingly, my female Inkas show more interest in breeding than the males at most times. It's the male that usually refuses to participate and instead chases the eager female away. Occasionally, I also get "lesbian" pairs that lay eggs, probably because the males in the same tank are acting asexually. So, my opinion on Inka is probably different, but I believe you should let the male Inka choose his female - he's the picky one.

Male baenschi seem to be only interested in eating--unless you get lucky. One technique I have used with mature fish is to stick them all together if they havent paired up---it seems to motivate them

 

[wethumbs]

In most cases, I also think female chooses the male assuming there are multiple on both sexes. I see that in harem breeders like cacatuoides, agassizii, etc to pair forming type like "Kelleri". Female will choose the bigger (assuming better) male.

I have done some experiments where a tank full of females with 1 male, the females would fight for the attention of the male. In the opposite, where a tank full of males with 1 female. The female will just go to the biggest male. I even went as far as after a pair has spawned and presumed bonded, I would introduce a bigger male in the tank. The female would try to form new pairing with the bigger male instead of the original male.

 

[JasonC]

thanks for all the great info... So in a tank where the fish spend most of their time under leaf litter, what are some things i should be looking for as far as behavior patterns that telegraph either a bond, or, for that matter, malice?

 

[slimbolen99]

In my tanks, specimens that are found trying to hide in the upper corners of the tank have probably been rejected as a mate...although, I have never kept A. baenschi. Signs that courting is under way could include "flashing" where one sex (typically the female) curves her body and wiggles back and forth in front of the male. Suppose you could call that "tail wagging" as well. Sometimes, the male and female will tail wag head to tail...your typical ying and yang type position.

 

[Melanochromis]

I have done some experiments where a tank full of females with 1 male, the females would fight for the attention of the male. In the opposite, where a tank full of males with 1 female. The female will just go to the biggest male. I even went as far as after a pair has spawned and presumed bonded, I would introduce a bigger male in the tank. The female would try to form new pairing with the bigger male instead of the original male.

That's an interesting observation. I also noticed the same things about females fighting for the male, and females going for the largest male. I even had female A. pantalone ignoring her supposed partner because there's a large male Inka in the adjacent tank that she seems to be interested. The pantalone bonding occurred weeks after I moved that Inka away from them.

However, I never tried to break the pair bond. That's some new for me to learn that a bonded female would be willing to go for a new male if he's bigger.

 

[Mike Wise]

I get the impression that many here think that bonded pairs of apistos are permanent. They typically are not. In most species, the bond lasts only for a single breeding cycle. If it is successful, and there are no changes that might improve survival of future offspring, then the pair will spawn again. If there are changes that will improve survival of offspring, then changes will occur. In harem-breeding species, it is almost always the female that tries to induce the male (who is usually happy to comply) to spawn with her and at her preferred spawning site. There is one exception. That is A. wapisana. Males court the females using courtship rituals normally used by females of other species. Interestingly, the females are larger than the males in this species.

 

[JasonC]

So I am very sure that my male has hit breeding age, as he is starting to assert his dominance in the tank. Problem is, not sure of what behaviors to really look for that show a pair has bonded. As things are getting a little hostile in the tank, I would like to pull some of the females out of the tank to make some breathing room for the rest. Am I better off watching behavior and pulling based on specific actions (if I can get to them... 7 females are hard to distinguish between), or just pulling based off of physical attributes (leaving specimens with good striping, color, etc.)?

Some behavior I am noticing: Male will chase off most approaching females, head-on bull rush style. Every once in a while, he will catch a female sitting around, and make a more casual approach, turn, and present his tail, twitching it. (As I understand, this is a big come-hither move). Females... for the most part, just try to get to any food on the ground, but every once in a while (Again, dont know if this is the same female, or multiples) one will catch the males eye and will lay down on her side, presenting her belly (I understand this also to be a huge attraction move). The male tends to chase off females who make this move and not reciprocate in any way.

Interpretations on this behavior? Is he on the right track? Again, opinions on things to look for when choosing a female to pull?

Thanks again for the help!

 

[Mike Wise]

Females who show their belly to the male can indicate 2 things: either she want to breed with him or she is showing submissiveness. If this was my tank, I would put so pieces of floating pipe in the corners of the tank. When you find a fish in the tube, it indicates that it has no territory. Just remove the fish & pipe to another tank. Repeat process until you have only the dominant female(s) with territories and your male.

 

[JasonC]

Thanks for the great idea Mike! Any suggestions on types of pipe that float and are tank safe?

 

[Mike Wise]

I use 3/4" black thin wall ABS pipe used for irrigation: cheap, easy to cut and floats. If you are a photgraphic troglodite (like me), you can use black 35mm film cans, too

 

[Apistomaster]

Mike,
That sounds like a good way to isolate compatible pairs. I'll have to give that method a try.
You already covered this but I was about to mention that Apistogramma pair bonds are fleeting unlike those of Discus and Angelfish. Even their bonds aren't really permanent. Just for one season in the wild.

 

[JasonC]

So I'm trying out Mikes suggestion and have been able to pull out one female over the course of the last week or so. Should I consider pulling out some of the pots I have in the tank, or will the dominant females just take over more real-estate as females get removed?

Thanks again!!

 

[Mike Wise]

I wouldn't. I would let nature take its course. You might get lucky and get a male interested in harem breeding!