well well well, what have we here?

[HaakonH]

I can tell you one thing; they sure aren't A.tucurui. That's what my supplier listed them as, but they still have some traits that make me think of eastern-Brazil based species.

I received six of them, and I was surprised to see they were about 3" (7-8 cm) and in fine condition. Too bad they are all males.

Interesting traits are the black blotch at the lower end of the caudal, the black spot between the eye and the mouth, as well as a faint black spot on the lower lip. Colors aren't all that, but some metallic blue sheen can be seen on the sides, as well as some blue and red spots on the gill cover. Caudal fin has spot pattern and is rounded. Black vertical bars seem slightly curved, a trait found in A.sp.Wangenflecken (right, Mike?). These are much bigger than the A.sp.Wangenflecken I received earlier this year from the same importer/exporter.

Haakon

 

[Microman]

The A.sp.Wangenflecken I had didnt have the pronounced caudal spot markings that your fish have here and the lateral band was also much narrower. The body of your fish is much deeper than my "Wangenflecken". I would say that you have a form of A.cf.caetei, possibly from the same area where your A.sp.Wangenflecken came from, Ilha de Marajo. Could it be A.cf.caetei "Rotwangen/Red cheeks" ?
Mark...

 

[FIL]

Hi,

I agree with Microman. Your fish can be classified in regani group and complex caetei because the lateral band appear to have a downward, right angle break just in front of the caudal spot and a pattern of vertical rows of spots over the entire caudal fin . ref : "a description of apistogramma speciesgroup of Mike WIse"

Read Apistogramma caetei complex.

Nicolas

 

[HaakonH]

Thanks guys! I aggree, these don't look quite like the A.sp.Wangenflecken I have, and this being a form of A.caetei actually crossed my mind. I didn't know that A.caetei grows to this size though, nice to see. The exporter (Imazo in Sweden) has had a few wild forms of caetei in stock during the last year or so, so it's not very surprising if this is another one

Haakon

 

[kaj.p]

I have wild A caetei from Marajo

And at the moment i also have A wagenflecken much younger specimens so they have not colured out yet. Not the best picture eighter

 

[Microman]

Wow Kaj... I didnt realise you were keeping, or have kept, so many different species of Apistogramma.
I thought that your tanks were almost entirely dedicated to discus.
Mark...

 

[Mike Wise]

Mark, Nicolas, you have learned well! Looks like I might be out of the apisto ID business!

 

[raymond82]

Nice fish the caetei!! Kaj, can I ask you what the fish is that you have in your avatar?

 

[kaj.p]

Not my intention to hijack HaakonsH s thread I enterd the pic for comparing. Sorry HaakonH.
Mark I reagulary have about 10 species of apistogrammas. But maybe I must start my own presentationthread.
Raymond its A sp Orosa

 

[HaakonH]

Kaj, I sure don't mind - any kind of interesting input is welcome in a small society like this

As for my own fish, I'll settle for A.cf.caetei then. 6 males and no females, that's a bummer...my contact at Imazo said he'd had these for more than a year. He didn't know what they were when he got them, and even though he sent some specimens to experts in Germany he still didn't get a proper ID. So he just kept them until further information emerged, which explains the nice condition of the fish. He couldn't find any females among them. While he was away on a business trip, a colleague of him put them on their stocklist as A.tucurui, for some reason. They're off the list again now.

According to another Swedish guy who works for a Brazilian exporter in Belem that ships fish to Sweden, they catch "3-4-5 different kinds of caetei". And this guy is no novice, so he's not thinking of completely different species of Apisto as caetei. He also told me of an upcoming revision of the genus (in 1-2 years) that will increase the number of described species to several hundred ("close to 500"...sounds amazing) . I didn't ask who's working on this, but some Brazilian ichthyologist(s) is surely involved. So, maybe the form I have will get it's own name in the not so distant future?

Haakon

 

[Mike Wise]

Raymond its A sp Orosa

This is a name often used in the trade. Most literature (Römer, Koslowski, (Linke &) Staeck, Matsuzaka, me , Google , etc.) use the more descriptive name, A. sp. Winkelfleck/Angle-patch.

 

[kaj.p]

This is a name often used in the trade. Most literature (Römer, Koslowski, (Linke &) Staeck, Matsuzaka, me , Google , etc.) use the more descriptive name, A. sp. Winkelfleck/Angle-patch.

I know but im not sure i like it. I just becomes just a little scared when you see the import lists and apistogramma names strawberry, sunshine, purple etc . It starts to look like all the fancy names for cultivated discus. I think it's an advantage if you can tie the group to where they come from. Just my toughts.

 

[Mike Wise]

I tend to agree. I prefer location names, too. Still, I prefer to use names published in books and magazines over those used on commercial sales lists. At least you have somewhere to go, to see the fish offered for sale. For example, Tom & I collected some "A. sp. 2000-1" (a commercial name) this year. Would you know what species I'm discussing?