Triggering Apisto Agassizi Spawn

[CopabX]

Hi all,
I was wondering if anyone had any tips to triggering agassizi to spawn or what I should be looking for if they do. I have a 3 females and one lucky male but nothing happening. When I got the original pair 3 months ago, i thought I saw some fry after 2 weeks but no other sightings so they probably died by now.
It's been 3 weeks since I added 2 more females but still nothing so I was wondering if there are any triggers I could use or if I am doing something wrong since I've heard other breeders apparently have rounds every 4.5 weeks. This is also my first apisto breeding experience. From websites the pH can range from 7.5-5.0 for apistos so is there any specific level for agassizi? Also, are tannins in the water necessary to induce a spawn or can I get by without because I can't find a reliable source of cones or oak leaves that i'm sure don't have anyhting growing in them.
My tank is at a 6.3 pH with soft water and 5-12 ppm tds because of RO I use.

Thanks
CopabX

 

[Mike Wise]

Your reported water values are fine. I can't say anything without knowing about the aquarium: size, location, decor, and temperature, maintanence schedule - as well as feeding regimen.

 

[CopabX]

Sorry about that,
It's a 13 gal nanocube I set on low filtration power so the fish don't get buffeted. Temperature I run at 79 degrees bec I read somewhere warmer temperatures may trigger a spawn. I change the water every 7-9 days depending how busy I am and around 30-50% is taken out. I've also been feeding them frozen mysis shrimp and bloodworms alternating every few days but they prefer bloodworms. As for location, I guess you mean where in the house. It's on the far side of the room away from the window so no sunlight gets in but the LED bulb I use mimics sunlight in color.

Front view

Side View

Thanks

 

[ste12000]

Nice tank but setup completely wrong for breeding Apistogramma, you need caves with much smaller entrances and a finer substrate.. If you look at their natural habitat you will see why, they live over sand and fallen leaf litter and hide amongst fallen wood in small shallow streams, this water is very very soft and usually acidic in varying degrees..

Id guess that most of that decor is leaching minerals that will in turn raise the hardness of the water to levels that does not support or encourage Apistogramma to breed.

You need to decide if you want a pretty display tank or a Apistogramma breeding tank..There is a world of difference between them.

Successful breeding of any fish is based on research into its natural biology and habitat.

 

[ste12000]

Just re-read your original post and the water looks ideal with the RO that you use, have you then measured this in the tank after 24 hours and then 48 hours ect? id guess that decor is causing problems..

Also 3 female Apistogramma in a tank that small is not really recomended, id remove two females and just keep a pair, find some fine grained sand(Childrens playpit sand is ideal) then add some half coconut shells with a notch cut into the side and a little bit of bogwood.. The fish will feel far more at home and the results should be fry..

 

[CopabX]

I got the ceramics because I saw some breeding tanks with ceramic caves, or i guess what looked like ceramic but were probably plastic. The purple shell is a ceramic cave but with glaze so I'm sure that one isn't releasing minerals. The castle is plastic, but I'm removing the pots and castle when I time to buy the shells and bogwood from my lfs which is a LONG drive. The tank already has sand in it and I tried a finer substrate a few weeks ago but whenever I did a water change my pump was destroyed and I just got a new one after switching to slightly larger particles.

Is it really impossible to breed them with 3 females because I don't have another open tank to move them to with the same level of filtration or would it be possible to keep them all and not breed since i haven't seen any fighting between them. If it really is a lost cause, are there any other things I should watch out for besides the decor? I'm going to get a tds meter today and try measuring the tank water like you recommended since the only reading I have is directly from the RO system.

 

[CopabX]

Just re-read your original post and the water looks ideal with the RO that you use, have you then measured this in the tank after 24 hours and then 48 hours ect? id guess that decor is causing problems..

Well I just found a meter and got a nasty surprise, 280 ppm! Maybe this is because it's been 8 days since I last changed water but...

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,
280 ppm TDS is quite high, can you check your RO? it may be that it needs back flushing etc.

Have a look at these pages for Apistogramma habitat, feeding, water etc., they are full of good advice: <http://dwarfcichlid.com/Aquarium_care.php>

cheers Darrel

 

[Bilbo]

Once you have the water and the tank sorted out, as per the advice above, I find live daphnia or live mosquito larvae seems to condition the females better than frozen foods. A few days to a week of top quality food will most times get them in the mood.

 

[CopabX]

Well I did some tests and ste was right, my ceramics were releasing TONS of minerals. I did a 80% water change, changed most of my filter media, and ran another charcoal filter so this morning the tank is now a nice 26 ppm . My RO output is a little high with 13 ppm so I'm going to change the ion filter (gonna be a big mess). I think I will wait a bit before feeding them live food because I'm going to find coconut shells/bogwood and I'm also out of brine shrimp eggs. That site was also helpful Darrel but I can't raise any live food other than brine shrimp because it may scare my parents. I'm also going to try to order some java moss but first does anyone have some that I could buy off of before I go web hunting?

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,
It is a shame you are in the US, as I have plenty of moss, Amazon Frogbit etc you could have had.

That site was also helpful Darrel but I can't raise any live food other than brine shrimp because it may scare my parents

Can you get Grindal Worms? they are extremely low maintenance, cost pennies to feed (with porridge oats) and you can keep them in 1 litre ice cream container etc so they take up virtually no space. I feed a small scrape of Grindals every day to the fish, so they aren't the main diet, they are a just little treat.

cheers Darrel

 

[CopabX]

Thanks all for the help,

It is a shame you are in the US, as I have plenty of moss, Amazon Frogbit etc you could have had.

Yeah, most of my stuff is secondhand or homemade but I found what I think is a small piece of java moss stuck in my filter probably from when I got the other plants from my lfs since they stuff them really close together. I also made some coconut huts like ste suggested and they seem to love them. One last question (hopefully), when a subdominant male reduces its colors, does it still show the bright blue spots on its gill area? I seem to have 2 fish (dominant male and female) who i originally got together who have those markings and the other 2 females don't have the blue spots and I'm wondering if the original "pair" were mislabeled. The suspicious female is also very light yellow oppose to the other females who are more orange/red. I'll try to get some pictures up tomorrow.

 

[Mike Wise]

Females don't show many blue spot on the face. My guess is that you got 2 males.

 

[CopabX]

Here are the pictures mike, sorry about taking so long.

Female #1, Sorry about the poor quality, she hides in the back a lot

Female #2

Suspicious Female

Male

 

[Mike Wise]

Highly inbred domestic strains often have atypical or lose features of wild forms. These are young fish. Only time will tell what sex you have.