Treating a white spot on an apistogramma tail

[Sordbodan]

One of my male Apisto opals has developed a 1/8" or 2mm white spot on its tail. I suspect it is either fungus or bacterial infection. I can see his scales beneath the white, so there doesn’t seem to be any physical injury or exposed flesh. Any suggestions on what I can do? Behaviourally he shows no change. He actively eats and swims. I was thinking of catching him and putting a few drops of hydrogen peroxide on the spot. Or should I just leave him alone and let it go away on its own? I raised this guy from a tiny fry so any help would be appreciated.

 

[MacZ]

Looks like bacteria on an injury.
Leave it, just do more and bigger waterchanges and add IALs and alder cones, should go away by itself then. What are your water parameters?

Catching and treating with H2O2 is far too much stress and thus will likely do the opposite of what it's supposed to do.

 

[Sordbodan]

Looks like bacteria on an injury.
Leave it, just do more and bigger waterchanges and add IALs and alder cones, should go away by itself then. What are your water parameters?

Catching and treating with H2O2 is far too much stress and thus will likely do the opposite of what it's supposed to do.

Thanks for the quick response @MacZ. I do daily 7% water changes. I use RODI water and mineralize with Seachem equilibrium to a GH of 5. No KH. My Ph is at 6.4 - set by Tropica aqua soil. My nitrates are between 10-20. TDS below 200. Keep the temp at 25C - 77F. Nothing has changed in the tank in the last couple of weeks.

That’s what I was worried about with h2o2, so you confirmed it. Instead, I’ll increase the water changes to 15% daily for a week, bringing it to 100% per week. I don’t have alder cones, but have almond leaves for my shrimp. Would that be a good addition? Also, would that affect the ph given the rodi water and aqua soil.

 

[MacZ]

I would do bigger waterchanges. In cases like this one I usually do 50% every 48h for a week (with 1x 50% each week anyway). Small waterchanges have the downside they don't really lower the pathogen density and wasteproduct dilution is also rather minor. You want your nitrates maxing out at 10-15mg/l before a wc. The small-wc-regiment you do leads to more nitrates and waste accumulated over time than with less often but bigger waterchanges.
Do you use actual DI or just RO?

You got IALs, that's plenty, alder cones are not mandatory. pH should be less impacted as you already have low pH. Might at best lead to 0.2 lower pH.

What do you feed? It's vital to prevent things like this in the future. Maybe do an allround troubleshoot.

 

[Sordbodan]

Tanks for your help. Your input is most welcome. I’ll do couple of larger water changes over the next week, in addition to the daily ones. I use RODI water, though my DI resin is in desperate need of change, which I’ll do today. I feed a variety of foods including hakkari micro pellets, frozen brine shrimp flakes, frozen blood worms, and live baby brine shrimp. And admittedly, I overfeed, which is also part of the cause higher nitrate (and I suspect higher organic waste). The reason for the overfeeding was that I was told to overfeed tanks with cories in it. I was doing the daily water changes adding up to 50% weekly thinking that would dilute things. But you are right. I just did the math and dilution with 7% at a time is much lower than one 50% change.

I am not sure what else might be the issue. Perhaps I should add carbon/Purigen to also reduce organic waste. And maybe increase the frequency of siphoning the substrate - I only do that once a month. If you have any other thoughts, I’d appreciate it.

 

[MacZ]

Tanks for your help. Your input is most welcome.

You're welcome!

I’ll do couple of larger water changes over the next week, in addition to the daily ones. I use RODI water, though my DI resin is in desperate need of change, which I’ll do today.

I was actually going to advise to not change it and take the DI-Stage out of the RO-unit. Unless your tap water is super hard removing all leftover minerals and adding them back in with equilibrium is much more expensive than cutting with a bit of tap long term. I have soft tap, but high nitrates, so I cut the RO with a bit of tap. Result: pH ~ 6.0, GH < 3°, KH 0, TDS I can only measure with a borrowed meter, but last time I was at around 60-70. Nitrates usually peak before waterchanges at 15mg/l.

I was doing the daily water changes adding up to 50% weekly thinking that would dilute things. But you are right. I just did the math and dilution with 7% at a time is much lower than one 50% change.

Especially if you think about this: Inbetween waterchanges more waste accumulates.

I am not sure what else might be the issue. Perhaps I should add carbon/Purigen to also reduce organic waste. And maybe increase the frequency of siphoning the substrate - I only do that once a month. If you have any other thoughts, I’d appreciate it.

There is probably not really an issue, depending on your stocking the amount of Nitrate might be normal. But also, your type of substrate leaches nitrogen compounds that are also metabolised to Nitrates.
I am not a friend of chemical filtration and vacuuming. The former also removes stuff that you want in the water and can stall the cycle. Too much vacuuming removes a lot of beneficial bacteria.
Especially for Apistogramma sand is the ultimate substrate. They love to chew it all the time and waste accumulates on top of it, so no need to touch the beneficial bacteria in the substrate. I don't even siphon from the sand surface anymore. With all the leaf litter I let the botanical mulm accumulate. It helps stabilizing the whole system and waste is effectively broken down in the mulm layer. But it only works with lots of leaf litter being maintained well.

 

[Sordbodan]

You're welcome!

I was actually going to advise to not change it and take the DI-Stage out of the RO-unit. Unless your tap water is super hard removing all leftover minerals and adding them back in with equilibrium is much more expensive than cutting with a bit of tap long term. I have soft tap, but high nitrates, so I cut the RO with a bit of tap. Result: pH ~ 6.0, GH < 3°, KH 0, TDS I can only measure with a borrowed meter, but last time I was at around 60-70. Nitrates usually peak before waterchanges at 15mg/l.


Especially if you think about this: Inbetween waterchanges more waste accumulates.


There is probably not really an issue, depending on your stocking the amount of Nitrate might be normal. But also, your type of substrate leaches nitrogen compounds that are also metabolised to Nitrates.
I am not a friend of chemical filtration and vacuuming. The former also removes stuff that you want in the water and can stall the cycle. Too much vacuuming removes a lot of beneficial bacteria.
Especially for Apistogramma sand is the ultimate substrate. They love to chew it all the time and waste accumulates on top of it, so no need to touch the beneficial bacteria in the substrate. I don't even siphon from the sand surface anymore. With all the leaf litter I let the botanical mulm accumulate. It helps stabilizing the whole system and waste is effectively broken down in the mulm layer. But it only works with lots of leaf litter being maintained well.

Thanks. I have hard water and relatively high nitrates. That is why I go with pure RODI. As for siphoning the substrate, I don’t actually go into it. I wave a scraper just above the substrate and vacuum out any debris raised.

I’ll do thing you suggested and hope the little guy gets better.

 

[MacZ]

Good luck!

 

[Sordbodan]

So a quick update. after doing the water changes etc. the white spot disappeared. Moreover I believe I found the cause. The females were chasing him everywhere, and nipping him right at the spot the injury had occurred . I don’t have a third tank to put him in (the second one has his brother), so I hoped they would calm down. I also put in more hiding places. Unfortunately he developed rapid breathing. Based on my previous experience that does not end well. He also developed a small white spot on his head and started to get very weak. I moved him into the breeder box and added some moss and almond leaves. He is much calmer and his breathing is not as rapid. However he is not eating. I am guessing the end is near.

I guess the lesson for me is not to have two females and a male in a 25g tank. I am not sure whether all apisto females are as aggressive, but borreli ones are relentless. I had to move my honey gourami from this tank when their aunt was the sole apisto in it. And the gourami was 4 times its size. I had chalked it up to an overly aggressive individual, but nope. The females are doing well, and so is the brother, who is in my other in my tank with the honey gourami and rasboras. The males, on their own, seem to be much more mellow.