Spawning Dicrossus filamentosus..A very happy moment.

[ste12000]

Well chaps after a few months of eaten broods and eggs going missing my wild Dicrossus have managed free swimming fry and i must say..I am truely delighted !!
I received Ten fish in the early part of the summer, i lost one immediatly and the remaining nine matured into 6 males and three females, they were all living in the same tank and there were plenty of spawnings but the tank was too small. I seperated them into two tanks and all three females spawned a few days apart..The first batch are freeswimming today and i have taken plenty of pics..

 

[bigbird]

Wow splendid indeed and what a huge amount of fry. What a success and hope that they grow as nice as the female. cheers jk :biggrin:

 

[Zack Wilson]

Congrats on the fry! It is quite a treat to see all those little ones floating after mom, isn't it? It's always rewarding to see your patience pay off.

Well, keep them well fed, and soon enough you can share the joy! I always found my filamentosus to be pretty prolific as well. The challenge then was finding space for all those little ones as they grew up.

 

[Mud Pie Mama]

Very, VERY nice! Congratulations!

 

[MikeR]

Can you tell us something about the setup, such as water parameters, feeding, etc?

Great pictures!

Mike

 

[ste12000]

Hi Mike, sorry about the wait for a reply, ive had trouble logging in..Teds sorted it now and im back online (Cheers Ted).
Only when i re-read the post did i realise i hadnt put much info up. Right ill start at the beginning, i was lucky enough to be asked by a couple of BCA members to take a group of Dicrossus, they were young wild Columbian fish from the Orinoco region. There were a few fish in the batch showing a top filiment only and we were excited to know if they were D.Gladicauda, none of mine developed the single filiments and all the males turned out to be Filimentosa..7 males and three females. I was happy with D.Filimentosa because it was a fish i had wanted for ages and had not kept before.
Being wild fish they were kept in water as close to the natural habitat as i could get it, Ph 4.5 tds measured 60ppm, temp was kept fairly steady at 80f, my fishhouse is space heated so on the middle rack it tends to stay around 80f.
The initial tank was a 18x12x12 holding 35 litres. Substrate was a very thin layer of childrens playpit sand and the decor consisted of a few small pieces of wood and oak and beech leaves.
The fish soon matured and within a month or so i had my first spawning, a female chose a leaf under the sponge filter and defended her clutch from the rest of the fish, unfortunatly there were too many fish and the eggs disapeared overnight (even with a nightlight!)..This pattern continued for a month or so until i split the fish and moved them into larger tanks.
The two breeding tanks measure 18x18x12(high) these cube tanks have a decent area for spawning dwarfs in. One tank held two pairs while the rest of the fish lived in the other. Both were set up as above and spawning soon began, this time all three females spawned within a week of each other, the tank containing two pairs were freeswimming first and i am still waiting for the third female to bring her fry out.. Unfortunatly i witnessed one female chasing and eating a few fry, this is not expected so i have syphoned the whole two batches out and now have 200plus fry in the safety of a plastic container floating in the parents tank, future broods will be left with the parents so i can make notes on broodcare..
Im happy to have some fry to grow on and hopefully spread them around in the near future so others can enjoy these stunning fish.. Get the water right and they are not as hard as many people believe..

 

[Zack Wilson]

Get the water right and they are not as hard as many people believe

I'm in total agreement with you, based on my experiences, but others seem to find differently. For me, it seemed pretty straight forward, and as long as you gave them optimal conditions, as listed from their habitat, they bred and raised their owns spawns without trouble.

It's quite possible that the females "eating" the fry might have been catching and stealing them from the other, as I've seen this happen with Dicrossus, but then I suppose you know the difference.

 

[MikeR]

Thanks for the information! I've tried the fish before, but I didn't realize that the pH needed to be so low. I guess now I'll have to give a try again <G>.

Do you know of any subsitutes for the oak or beech leaves? We don't have any of those trees around here. Is the size or the tannin that they like?

Mike

 

[ste12000]

Hi Mike, the water values at a collection location of the Rio Guarrojo are listed by Linke and Staeck as
Clear, brownish water with a PH of 5.3, total and carbonate hardness below 1DH, the conductivity level was taken at 1-3us at 30c. If you can get things as close as possible to that you cant go far wrong.

One thing with these more difficult fish is that it costs a lot to spawn them. Good Digital meters for PH and TDS are essential, i would also recommend spending money on the best books possible, £100 should get you both of the Mergus Cichlid atlases and the Linke and Staeck American cichlids 1.. These books contain all you need for a successful spawning. These fish are not fish you can spawn without knowing all you can about them.

I hope i havent put anyone off...These fish are worth all the expense, that first sight of freeswimming fry is priceless.

As for Suitable American leaves, im not sure but im sure Zack or someone can jump in with suggestions. I know that the Asian Almond leaves are used often,and can be found worldwide through ebay ect.. i personally think they produce too much tannin in a small tank, sometimes its difficult to see the fish!!

 

[ed seeley]

I've used American Oak leaves from Quercus rubra. Or other members of the Beech family are fine.

 

[MikeR]

One thing with these more difficult fish is that it costs a lot to spawn them. Good Digital meters for PH and TDS are essential, i would also recommend spending money on the best books possible, £100 should get you both of the Mergus Cichlid atlases and the Linke and Staeck American cichlids 1.. These books contain all you need for a successful spawning. These fish are not fish you can spawn without knowing all you can about them.

I hope i havent put anyone off...These fish are worth all the expense, that first sight of freeswimming fry is priceless.

I actually already have the pH controller, so it doesn't scare me too much <G>. I have the Linke and Staeck book, but didn't realize that the pH was that critical. I had had the D. filamentosa but at a pH of 6.5 because I also had some rams in the tank.

The only oak species in this area (central California) are live oaks, and the leaves are very small. I do have some Liquidamber that look something like the size and shape of the oak leaves you have.

Mike

 

[MikeR]

Ed:

There are no beech trees around here, and the only oak is a live oak with very small leaves (the tree is evergreen). Would Liquidamber (a type of maple) or birch leaves work? Perhaps magnolia? I'm mostly concerned about toxicity; the sizes would work.

Mike

 

[ed seeley]

Ed:

There are no beech trees around here, and the only oak is a live oak with very small leaves (the tree is evergreen). Would Liquidamber (a type of maple) or birch leaves work? Perhaps magnolia? I'm mostly concerned about toxicity; the sizes would work.

Mike

I wouldn't go with any evergreen as they often have rather thick sap and cuticles that could cause issues if you don't know they are OK. The Magnoliaceae have a number of species that are toxic so I wouldn't go with those.

I reckon if you can't find deciduous Fagus or Quercus species then I've used Acer branches in my tanks and I know people have used Alder (Alnus) cones in tanks. Not sure about Liquidambers to be honest.

 

[PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn]

fractionally off topic.

but what about using willow branches. It was mentioned about the aspirin, and what effect it'd have on fish. however given thats just in the bark, if that is stripped would that make them aquarium safe???

 

[Mike Wise]

Beach, oak & alders trees naturally grow in areas with acidic soil. Part of the reason for this is because of the acids found in their leaves/cones. Other trees don't have a high acid content, so they don't work especially well.

 

[viejo]

Has anyone ever tried walnut shell?

 

[Arcadianred]

fractionally off topic.

but what about using willow branches. It was mentioned about the aspirin, and what effect it'd have on fish. however given thats just in the bark, if that is stripped would that make them aquarium safe???

Madman,

I have often wondered whether if it was suitable to use willow twigs in the aquaria. Willows grow in acidic conditions I think and twigs would contain Salicin. I think this would mean Salicilyic acid would be created when saturated? Does anyone have any experience of this?

Thanks

Mark

 

[MikeR]

Fagus[/I] or Quercus species then I've used Acer branches in my tanks and I know people have used Alder (Alnus) cones in tanks. Not sure about Liquidambers to be honest.

Ed:

Now that you mention it, I do have a silver maple in the back yard. I'll start saving the leaves.

The soil in my area is alkaline, but I have some acid-loving plants like gardenias and azaleas. Might those work?

Mike

 

[ed seeley]

Ed:

Now that you mention it, I do have a silver maple in the back yard. I'll start saving the leaves.

The soil in my area is alkaline, but I have some acid-loving plants like gardenias and azaleas. Might those work?

Mike

I wouldn't go with the azaleas or gardenias. I'm not sure but I think they have some toxins in them. Over here we have Rhododendron spreading like mad in some wild areas and I think part of that is sheep don't eat the little ones becuase the leaves are unpalatable (among other reasons). Azaleas are closely related so I'd stay clear.

Not sure about the maple. Can you collect some fallen leaves this autumn and then soak them. Test the water and see what the results are, then try it with a few tough fish and monitor them closely so you can remove them at the first sign of any stress.

 

[MikeR]

Not sure about the maple. Can you collect some fallen leaves this autumn and then soak them. Test the water and see what the results are, then try it with a few tough fish and monitor them closely so you can remove them at the first sign of any stress.

Ed:

I misspoke...it's a scarlet maple, but your suggestion is a good idea. I even have some daphnia I could use to test the water. Those creatures are used for testing water for contamination.

I'll stay away from the azaleas and such.

I'm thinking of using a 40 gallon tank because of the relatively large footprint. Now to talk the wife into this <G>.

Mike