sick apisto- what can I do?

[techgoby]

Hi all,

I'm facing issues with my apistogramma agassizii (male) and i'm worried he will pass. I bought him a month ago from LFS and up until yesterday he was seemingly acting fine, eating well and always swimming in the front of the tank. Recently he has become extremely different and hides himself all day, under rocks, wood, and does not move or come out to eat.

Two possible reasons and recent actions to why I think he might be stressed out now-
1. I had him living with a female- I decided to move her out to a different tank the same day. I'm not sure if they were actually a mated pair or not, but they tolerated each other with a few chasing every now and then. I don't believe this to be the case as I moved her back to the same tank today and didn't notice any significant change in behavior. They are again in separate tanks.
2. I recently bought live blackworms to feed my tank live foods. I fed once three days prior to the symptoms and once on the day of. They seemed to really enjoy the food, but now I am reading that this is always a risk because of parasites and disease that can come with them.

It is hard for me to truly diagnose him because he is always hiding now, always rushes to another hiding spot when I try to check on him. I don't know how to tell if he has any internal parasites, if this is a bacterial infection, etc. Or which medicine to dose, if any. On hand I have Prazipro, Seachem Kanaplax, IchX and Fritz aquarium salt. As well as a spare 7 gallon tank that I can use as a quarantine.

Any advice for how to diagnose/what to treat him with? Should I move him and risk more stress or dose the whole (20g) tank? New to apistogrammas and unsure how to respond to this. Thanks in advance, it would be a huge blow to lose him.

 

[MacZ]

I think I first have to clean up some misunderstandings.

1. I had him living with a female- I decided to move her out to a different tank the same day. I'm not sure if they were actually a mated pair or not, but they tolerated each other with a few chasing every now and then. I don't believe this to be the case as I moved her back to the same tank today and didn't notice any significant change in behavior. They are again in separate tanks.

A. agassizii doesn't form mated pairs. Frankly, no Apistos do. At best species of the A. nijsseni-species group are relatively monogamous. For all other species the rule of thumb is: If the female is not willing to spawn she's not welcome in the male's territory, thus the male tries to chase her off. Aquariums have the problem of limited space, and if she stays non-receptive the male will always try to get her out.

2. I recently bought live blackworms to feed my tank live foods. I fed once three days prior to the symptoms and once on the day of. They seemed to really enjoy the food, but now I am reading that this is always a risk because of parasites and disease that can come with them.

Red mosquito larvae, sold as BLOODworms are indeed a problem for most dwarf cichlids and should not be fed. Also live Tubifex, especially if wild collected pose a thread of bringing in parasites. To my knowledge, blackworms are no risk, though.

I don't know how to tell if he has any internal parasites, if this is a bacterial infection, etc. Or which medicine to dose, if any. On hand I have Prazipro, Seachem Kanaplax, IchX and Fritz aquarium salt. As well as a spare 7 gallon tank that I can use as a quarantine.

Absolutely vital: Don't dose with any meds unless you have a faint idea what's going on.

Recently he has become extremely different and hides himself all day, under rocks, wood, and does not move or come out to eat.

It is hard for me to truly diagnose him because he is always hiding now, always rushes to another hiding spot when I try to check on him

Sounds like a phenomenon we see very often. The fish become reclusive, stop eating, develop problems with buoyancy and balance, dropsy and popeye occur as well. The symptoms are quite unspecific so the best theory I know of is the immune system failure due to stress.
We do know this because most often this happens when the fish are stressed a lot. Be it environmental stress (wrong temp, waterparameters, food, even lighting) or social (aggressive fish of the same species or too boisterous and big tankmates. Meds (antibiotics) do sometimes work, but if the stress factors are not removed, the fish relapse and it's game over very quickly.
The result: The fish develop said symptoms, often showing signs of a systemic bacterial infection and it takes between a week and a month to succumb to it. Most often domestic colour breeds and wild caught fish are affected, the former due to really bad genetics, the latter due to overall acclimation problems.

I'd recommend filling out our emergency template, because if we can't find out the stress factors, it will happen again and again.

Template for disease/parasite/death cases

This template contains the most important questions to be answered when dealing with sick or dead fish to find causes and advise on treatments. Please copy and paste into a new thread and answer the questions as precise as possible. Water parameters should be given in numbers. "Fine" or "good"...

apistogramma.com

 

[Mike Wise]

Actually blackworms, like tubifex worms, live in organic-rich often polluted waters. As such fish pathogens can be introduced with them. It is best to only use worms from a source that cultures them in clean fish-free environments. The same is true for any freshwater aquatic live food.

 

[techgoby]

thanks @MacZ for the reply and information- i will work on the template.. in the meantime i wasnt able to upload any videos here but here are some images of how he looks now, dont think hes eaten for a couple of days. threw some catappa leaves in the water in case the tannins help and temps around 82 now

 

[MacZ]

Yeah, doesn't look good. Catappa is always good but won't help in this case. I doubt he'll make it. Sorry for being so direkt but I'm not going to give people hope when there is none.