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Rio Guaporé biotope

Discussion in 'Apistogramma' started by René, Aug 15, 2016.

  1. René

    René New Member

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    Hi all,

    I'm planning on setting up a Rio Guaporé, unheated, biotope (size in cm: 80x40x40). First off, I have a question regarding A. trifasciata. I've seen people talk about A. trifasciata from the upper and lower Guaporé. What's the difference between the two? Can't really find an answer for that, and I'd like to know.

    Second, I'm having a hard time finding a good source for information, so mostly through seriouslyfish I've come up with some species (I'll be picking one Apistogramma species and one schooling type*, not necessarily from this list):
    - Apistogramma trifasciata
    - Apistogramma borellii (not sure)
    - Hyphessobrycon eques
    - Hyphessobrycon megalopterus
    - Nannostomus unifasciatus
    Would any of these be suitable tankmates for a Guaporé biotope aquarium?

    And last, hopefully someone can help me with that too, plants. Also a bit of hard time finding a list of plants from the Guaporé. I found a couple (minus a lot of Echinodorus species and Limnophila that are extremely rare in the Netherlands), but I'm not sure if they actually occur over there:
    Echinodorus tenellus
    Salvinia auriculata
    Cabomba palaeformis
    Egeria najas

    Thanks! :)

    * No intention to breed the Apistogramma sp.
  2. Mike Wise

    Mike Wise Moderator Staff Member 5 Year Member

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    Interesting project! First, the Rio Guaporé is a tropical river, so most of the fish in it require some heat - at least 68°F/20°C. The apistos listed should handle lower temperatures long-term, but not sure about the tetras.

    A. trifasciata has an extremely wide range, found from the La Plata region of northern Argentina, the entire length of the Río Paraguay/Paraguai from Paraguay to Brazil, the entire length of the Rio Guaporé in Bolivia & Brazil, and even in the Río Beni in Bolivia. There is a wide variation in color and body shape throughout its range. The 'Guaporé Form', found in the Río Itonamas and farther upstream in the Río Guaporé, tends to have a more slender body shape and a honey yellow color above the lateral band (males). Males from the Paraguay/LaPlata system show more or less metallic blue backs. Photos I have seen of A. trifasciata from the Río Beni tend to be more like the Guaporé Form. They lack the metallic blue back. Instead they show a pale yellow/beige to orange back and a wider lateral band. If you read German, I suggest finding a copy of Staeck's article in DCG-Informationen, Sonderheft 5: 11–18. It discusses most of the different populations.

    On a side note, I can't recall any reports of A. borellii in the Río Guaporé system. It is found in the Rio Paraguai (Mato Grosso) in Brazil, but not the Guaporé system.

    In a community tank, any of the above tetras should be fine with A. trifasciata. Serpae Tetras (H. eques) have a reputation for being 'nippy', but this is only when kept in too small of a school. Plants aren't in my sphere of interest, so I can't help you there.
  3. René

    René New Member

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    Thanks! Unfortunately my German isn't that great, but if I understand you correct there's no need to worry about different temperature ranges for A. trifasciata?

    The H. eques will be in a group of 12 or 15, so nipping won't be a problem I guess.
    In that case I'll probably go with a group of eques and 1m/3f A. trifasciata.
  4. Karin

    Karin Active Member

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    Serpae tetras are a beauty but they are terrible in my experience, they always nip on anybody fins... the megalopterus are a beauty and perfect. They are gorgeous when dancing in pairs, of any sex!!
  5. Mike Wise

    Mike Wise Moderator Staff Member 5 Year Member

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    I would not recommend keeping A. trifasciata for any length of time below 65°F/18°C. Low temperatures slows their metabolism and their ability to resist diseases. How low will the water get?
  6. René

    René New Member

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    @Karin, may I ask how many specimens you kept at a time? H. megalopterus are indeed very fun to look at and definitely have nice colors too. The deep red color of H. eques however, gives a better contrast to the plants and A. trifasciata (assuming I'm getting the blue form, which is the only one I've ever seen over here).

    @Mike, only at night the temperature could go down to 16/17°C, although that rarely happens. I've had an unheated tank before in the same room, in which the temperature never went below 18°C at night.

    If necessary I can always set the heater to something like 19°C so it won't go below that temperature.
  7. Karin

    Karin Active Member

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    Hi René. They were originally five, then three fry got to adulthood. Although they were not many, indeed, (I stiil have them, they are strong!) they are a nightmare... they are all by themselves now. Somebody gave them to mee, obviously I didnt know so I accepted them. the phantoms did figft with them!! I wouldnt take the risk...
  8. MickeM

    MickeM Active Member 5 Year Member

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    Hi Rene + all..

    If you want to put some extra work into your dream/project of collecting endemically "Guapore-species" you may want to contact the KFN..(Killifish Nederlands) ??
    They will soon have their annual exhibition ... in Asperen if I remember it correct..??
    Some of the best experts+breeders will be there...!!

    http://www.killifishnederland.nl/

    There is a very rare Neofundulus guaporensis scientifically described from Rio Guapore... maybe there are some more species to find from this area..??
    Don`t be afraid to ask the members in the KFN-club for more info.. (Probably Wim Suijkers can guide/help you ..?)

    I know there will be some/many nice killi-fishes from South America in their exhibition/show..!! (..and for sale on the Sunday-auction!)
    ..and if you want a nice surface-living African fish to keep with normal-sized Apistos.., most Epiplatys-species works fine in long/larger tanks (length-80cm< )..!!
    I have gotten fry from Apistos and Epiplatys in my planted tanks ..

    Have a look on Neofundulus + other killies here..

    http://www.itrainsfishes.net/content/


    /Micke
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2016
  9. René

    René New Member

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    @Karin, thanks. I guess the size of the group might have caused the agressive behavior, as Mike already mentioned.
    It's hard though to find people who kept them in a large group. I think I'll take the guess, since I can seperate them right away if they become agressive towards the A. trifasciata.

    Thanks Micke. I'm not planning on adding anymore fish though, so I'll stick with the Apistogramma and either the eques or megalopterus.
    If I ever feel like adding more fish I will definitely contact them.
  10. Tom C

    Tom C Well-Known Member 5 Year Member

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    All these are reported from the actual drainage:

    Chalceus guaporensis
    Tetragonopterus argenteus
    Cyphorcharax spp.
    Metynnis argenteus
    Metynnis spp.
    Serapinnus spp.
    Gymnocorymbus ternetzi
    Pyrrhulina cf. australis
    Prionobrama filigera
    Aphyocharax alburnus
    Aphyocharax rathbuni
    Aphyocharax anisitsi
    Aphyocharax nattereri
    Hemigrammus marginatus
    Moenkhausia dichroura
    Moenkhausia australe
    Moenkhausia oligolepis
    Hyphessobrycon megalopterus
    Tripotheus angulatus
    Carnegiella marthae
    Carnegiella myersi
    Unknown "Rosy Tetra"

    and the beautiful Nannostomus unifasciatus of the "Ocellatus" form:

    [​IMG]

    The population of Nannostomus unifasciatus in the Rio Guapore drainage is one of the very few where there are differences in males' and females' anal fin.

    These plants are reported:

    Echinodorus grisebachii
    Eichhornia azurea
    Paspalum repens
    Cabomba furcata
    Utricularia sp.
    Ludwigia sedoides
  11. René

    René New Member

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    Thanks Tom.
    I'll go with H. megalopterus than and maybe in the future a group of N. unifasciatus or one of the Carnegiella sp.

    None of those plants are available over here unfortunately (only Eichornia, which is quite rare).
  12. Karin

    Karin Active Member

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    Yes, René, you can give them a try (the Serpae) and be aware! They are a beauty. Eichornia is an amazing plant.
  13. Dravik2

    Dravik2 New Member

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    hello rene

    i would not recommend H. eques for a 80cm tank
    i'v got a school of 20 in my 120cm tank and seen their behavior i would say 1m is a minimum and i would keep a smaller group somthing like 10/12
    i'v found some information that in most places only a few fish are found so they are more group fish than schooling fish
    they school together with other species

    keeping the trifsciata at room temperature would be okay to my opinion the biotoop i'm trying to receate has the trifasciata and in the coldest month the air temperature is 16c on average with minimuns of 11c
    and it is a smal stream so the fish wil probebly encounter temperatures of 16c for shorter times.
  14. René

    René New Member

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    Thanks Dravik. I haven't decided yet, but I wouldn't have chosen H. eques anyway anymore. The current setup has a lot of red accents, and I think the eques would blend it too much. Something like H. megalopterus will probably stand out more.

    Anyway, setup is almost finished:
    [​IMG]
    Just waiting for the wood to sink so I can remove that ugly rock and going to add some more Heteranthera zosterifolia in the back.
    Russ Hennessey, dw1305 and Karin like this.
  15. Karin

    Karin Active Member

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    Heteranthera zosterifolia growth very well and is a beauty. The phantoms are also a good choise, easy to breed.
    dw1305 likes this.
  16. René

    René New Member

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    Quick question: does Corydoras hastatus also occur in the rio Guaporé?
    I've just bought a small group (only 7 unfortunately) of these, have never seen them in The Netherlands before and I believe they're quite rare.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    dw1305 likes this.
  17. Tom C

    Tom C Well-Known Member 5 Year Member

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    According to Staeck, they are found in the Río San Martín, which is a huge tributary to the Río Guaporé.
    So yes, they are found in the Río Guaporé drainage.
    dw1305 likes this.
  18. JK91

    JK91 New Member

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    Hi René,

    If you want more C. hastatus, I've seen them at Top Fish for a reasonable price. I guess you can also order them over there.

    They also do shipping orders, I believe. You can contact them by phone or Facebook.

    They're pretty fragile though, so you might want to wait to see how they adjust. Tank looks awesome btw. What kind of small roots do you use in your tanks?
  19. René

    René New Member

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    Thanks! I'll have a look at their website.

    The roots I've used are from Syringa vulgaris. Dig out a couple of young plants, remove the leaves (I believe they're toxic) and wash off the dirt. The roots and branches don't seem toxic, have used them in different aquariums and never noticed anything strange. Also takes quite some time before they start to rot.
    dw1305 likes this.
  20. Dravik2

    Dravik2 New Member

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    the c. hastatus is pretty hard tot get in the netherlands i'v searched for a year before i got mine
    Just a week after vkc got my hastatus from glaser in Germany my local fisher store got hastatus from I thought aquamania but i'm not sure
    at this moment i'v got a Group of 15 in my paraat biotope