please id this apisrogramma

[steve1572]

just looking for some help on id this is the female will try to get photo of male but he is very nervous they are wild caught and not had them long i was told they were Apistogramma sp. "Black-chin/Schwarzkinn

 

[Rod]

looks like a male to me....:wink:

females have black front edges to ventral fins

 

[aquaticclarity]

It's a male.

Is there are noticable black almost square spot under the mouth (on the chin)? If so it's most likely sp. black chin. I have a bunch of wild females and just a handful of males...know anyone coming to the aca convention that could get some back over to you?

The tail looks rounded though and sp. black chin has a forked tail. The mouth also looks to small for sp. black chin and the check stripe is to thin.

The fish looks a lot more like trifasciatus other then the patterning in the tail (trifasciatus has a patternless tail).

 

[steve1572]

male

this is what i thought was the male

 

[Adoketa]

Juruensis perhaps?

 

[aquaticclarity]

That's a male as well. Looks like a bunch larger dominant fish compared to the other one. Can you get a shot of the tail of the larger fish? He looks like sp. black chin, at least at a glance.

 

[steve1572]

i will try his tale is the same as the other one

 

[Mike Wise]

I am pretty sure that you have 2 young male A. sp. Black-chin/Schwarzkinn. Either the caudal extensions haven't developed yet (still young fish) or the extensions were lost in transit. Time to look for some females!

 

[steve1572]

are they closley related to cacatuoides or am i getting that wrong

 

[Mike Wise]

Yes, they are a member of the cacatuoides-group. They are most closely related to the Brazilian species A. juruensis. They were originally confused with this species and many book erroneously label the as "A. juruensis".

 

[Adoketa]

In fact, I got my hands on 2 pairs of "juruensis" and my friend noted that they look like cacatuoides with black throats. I wonder what are the differences between schwarzkinn and juruensis?

 

[Mike Wise]

Schwarzkinn has a much larger and more prominent throat stripe, which on females intensifies when brooding. On A. juruensis the small throat stripe disappears completely when the female has eggs/fry. Male Schwarzkinn have a shorter snout and much thicker lower lip, which is red/orange (blue on juruensis). They also show a caudal pattern with fewer and more irregular rows of stripes on the caudal fin. The wavy stripes on Schwarzkinn are narrower and appear to be more pointed at the 'crest of the wave'. Those on A. juruensis are thicker and show blunt crests. The best way to see the difference is to compare photos of the two species side by side. In a tank, the best way to identify the species is by looking at the color of the lips: red/orange: Schwarzkinn; blue: A. juruensis or A. cacatuoides.