Pelvicachromis taeniatus and their variants

[mybirdshit]

In Anton Lamboj's book he discussed possibility of some strains of taeniatus possibly being a cross between different locale specimens. Of course to breed with a totally different species is not appreciable, but what about crosses of the same species from different locale? Such a problem I am also interested concerning rainbowfish as some of them like taeniatus are the same species but from different locale. What do you guys think? Is it acceptable to breed the same species but of different locale together?

 

[Mike Wise]

I believe that what we call Pv. taeniatus is actually a superspecies that contains several distinct species. In this case, I personally would not cross the fish. Still, I see no problem crossing locations - just as long as you let potential buyers know that is what they are getting.

 

[Simon Morgan]

I would agree with Mike, no harm in it.
Fish like this are often just as attractive as wild forms but are usually referred to as "Aquarium" strains.

 

[mybirdshit]

How about Dehane cross with Wouri for example?

I notice these 2 have slightly different body shapes, wouri deeper.

 

[tjudy]

I doubt that a dehane will easily cross with a wouri. The wouri is the most likely candidate in the complex to become its own species.

 

[mybirdshit]

What about Nig Reds with Dehane? Actually, which are more likely to be in their own species complex?

 

[tjudy]

My understanding from conversations with people like Anton Lamboj is that when (if) the eventual recalssification og the Pelvicachromis genus happens we will see the P. taeniatus broken into probably three, maybe four species.. The nigerian form, the wouri form, the moliwe form and the rest of the Camaroon forms could all be separated. There is some thought that even amongst the various Camaroon forms there may be enough differentiation to separate them into a few species, such as those that are like the moliwe/makoure/lokounje types and the lobe/nyete types... but that is speculation on my part. Personally, I can see the Nigerian and Camaroon forms split, and wouri split out from the Camaroom forms to its own species. But I am not a taxonomist.

As for the Nig. red and dehane... probably not. The dehane is a Camaroon form, and there are significant differences between the two.

 

[Boupette]

So I have a female "Dehane" and a male "Bibindi" who are about to match. I didn't know really what to do since I lost the only one male "Dehane" that I had. They all are in a West Africans tank and I was wandering what to do with them. So I'm gonna prepare a new home for this odd couple. I really tought it was a forbiden thing to do... and still I'm not quite sure it's ok!........

 

[Woody]

Hi Boupette

Hi Boupette

Maybe we can work something out when we get a stretch of mild weather. I have a lone male Dehane, I placed him in a community tank so he can have some company and the poor little guy is courting the skunk botias.
I have tanks full of Bipindi at various ages, so drop me a line and lets see if we can do something.

Talk to you soon

Woody

 

[tjudy]

"Forbidden" is a bit ominous. The conventaional wisdom is to not cause hybrids. A cross between a dehane and a bipindi is not a species x species hybrid. It would be a cross between different geographic forms of the same species. If this cross occurs, and the resulting offspring are attractive, you will probably want to pass a few on to other hobbyists. The only favor I would ask is that you call the fish a Pel. taeniatus 'aquarium strain' so that potential keepers are not going to think that they are a specific type. Aquarium strains most definitely have a place in the hobby. The P. t. 'nigeria red', for example, does not have a known natural locality and is suspected to be a line-bred form in which aquarists selected the reddest offspring to breed through successive generations. The P. pulcher that most west african dwarf enthusiasts start with are aquarium strains that have been in the hoby for decades.

 

[mybirdshit]

This is interesting.

Thus far, we may have the Cameroon forms(Dehane and ....the rest ), the Wouri, the Nigerians(red, yellow and green?) and the Moliwe(isn't this the most common in the hobby?), is it?

 

[tjudy]

Moliwe is one of th emore common varieties in the hobby, but it is also one of the easier to reproduce, and the collecting area is well known and comparably larger than other areas. The Camaroon taeniatus, not including the wouri which is very different, fall into two categories in my mind. There are the spotted varieties like moliwe/dehane/makoure etc... and there are the non spotted varieties like lobe/nyete. I am talking about the males. THe females of all the Camaroon taeniatus are variable in the the number of dorsal spots. I have had both lobe and nyete females with and without spots.

 

[mybirdshit]

I see I see...forgot about the tail spot difference in some localities as well. I have 2 pairs of Dehanes. My LFS recently got a female taeniatus in as a contaminant, he was not sure what it was but it was undeniably wouri with it's nice bright gold patch near the dorsal on midbody. It was considerably fatter than my dehane females. The supplier he said has a tankful of these, supposedly wild-caught but region for this tank was not stated. Looking at that female is tempting me to get some.

 

[Boupette]

"Forbidden" is a bit ominous. The conventaional wisdom is to not cause hybrids. A cross between a dehane and a bipindi is not a species x species hybrid. It would be a cross between different geographic forms of the same species. If this cross occurs, and the resulting offspring are attractive, you will probably want to pass a few on to other hobbyists. The only favor I would ask is that you call the fish a Pel. taeniatus 'aquarium strain' so that potential keepers are not going to think that they are a specific type. Aquarium strains most definitely have a place in the hobby. The P. t. 'nigeria red', for example, does not have a known natural locality and is suspected to be a line-bred form in which aquarists selected the reddest offspring to breed through successive generations. The P. pulcher that most west african dwarf enthusiasts start with are aquarium strains that have been in the hoby for decades.

Thank you tjudy, it's gettig a lot clearer for me. And don't worry, if I have Pel. taeniatus 'aquarium strain', you guys will be the firsts to know!

I'd like a lot to study the West Africans species but there's not much work translated in French so It's hard for me to have the right informations or to be well educated on the subjet. I simply love those fishes, there're so interesting and colorfull. If someone knows a book in my language please let me know.

Boupette

 

[tjudy]

Is Anton Lamboj's book (The Cichlid Fishes of Western Africa) published in French? I would be surprised if it were not. Dr. Lamboj is very active with the French hobbyist groups.

 

[Boupette]

Hi Boupette

Maybe we can work something out when we get a stretch of mild weather. I have a lone male Dehane, I placed him in a community tank so he can have some company and the poor little guy is courting the skunk botias.
I have tanks full of Bipindi at various ages, so drop me a line and lets see if we can do something.

Talk to you soon

Woody

Hi Woody!

It's minus 4°Celsius today at end of December it's usually -15°, and usualy in January it's around -20°C here in Québec City. Sometimes is colder! Where I live in Val-Bélair 20 Km north-west from Québec I've seen minus 52°C. It's quite cold...
So we'll forget it during winter time but maybe we could do something this spring.

 

[Woody]

Hi Boupette

You're in Quebec City, too cold for this time of year. I use to spend January and part of February up in Valcartier, I've seen it -40 for a month.
I'll PM you when the weather warms up.
Plus it will give me some time, I am receiving some Pel. TAe. Wouri and Moliwe
in the next couple of weeks. Should have some F1's by spring.

Les vacances heureuses mon ami

Woody

 

[Boupette]

Ah yeah! I live 2 miles from Valcatier! lol We keep in touch. Bon temps des Fêtes! Happy Hollidays everybody! Lot of LOVE