panduro groups

[rsa1]

New to Apistos, I have a few Panduros (two pair + an extra male), one pair has spawned a couple of times and a couple of fry have survived without my trying. Question: I separated the fish into pairs about 6 months ago (as a beginer it seemed to be the safest option). I'm interested in seeing a little more of the "group dynamics" behavour. Will it be possible to regroup these fish, or have they been separated to long to work out the hierarchy? My plan was to move them to a new tank (i.e. everybody needs to claim new territory). The tank will be a 75 gal (48x18 footprint), heavily planted with lots of hiding places. Do you think this will work? I guess the other option would be to work towards getting a successful enough spawn that I could let a new group of fish grow together, but I don't know how long it will take me to reach that point. Thanks!

 

[jowens]

Neil is more qualified to answer this, but I'll take a shot. While Panduro are some of the more aggressive Apistos during breeding time, I think you'd have a good shot of making it work in a 75-gallon tank as you describe. That's quite a bit of space, especially if it's planted with hiding spots.

I would add some dither fish (a large school of cardinals always looks good in a planted tank) and give it a try. Every fish is different and it's always possible that you'll end up with a homicidal pair...but I think it should probably work.

 

[Cichlids1]

I had a PAIR of panduro in a 55g that proceded to kill anything and everything they could handle. Tetras, pencils, apisto aggie and cacatouides, and were working over the cory cats. Heavily planted, a lot of caves, etc. After the competion was removed, they spawned. New competition added, no spawns until the new additions were destroyed. I want to put these guys in one of Neil's "Apistogramma Death Matches". They get along famously with each other, but tolerate no one else. I am sure I just have malcontents tho. I've seen people keeping multiples in smaller tanks, with other panduro and other apistos, with no problems.

Neil, I've got a challenger to the title

 

[rsa1]

more info

Thanks for the info so far, it's interesting. The Panduros I have seem to be moderately violent. The pair that has successfully spawned for me have killed my Amano shrimp, but only chase other fish. So far, no fish deaths. The extra male I have is in a community tank. He's fine with the other fish except for a Bolivian Ram, who I had to remove to save it's life.

 

[jowens]

It might be interesting to try them with something a big heartier, like kribs. Regardless, as Neil is fond of saying - no two fish are alike. Panduro are definetly more aggressive then most Apistos...but I think Chichlids1's are probably a more aggressive example then most. If you've got the tank space and you're willing to pull some fish if it doesn't work, then I say give it a try.

Even with aggressive fish, 75 gallons is a good deal of space. But if you get a pair that's hellbent on homicide, I suppose all the space in the world won't matter!

 

[Neil]

If you put these pairs back together, it may work out OK in that large of a tank. But then again, one of your pairs may turn out to be like the ones' described above and kill the other fish. It is always a little bit of a risk putting cichlids together, especially pairs of the same species. You better bet would be to have a colony of one male and several females. Panduro might not be the best apisto to try this group dynamics experiment thing with because of the intolerance of other Panduro. However...

Cichlids1
I have not ever had an apisto that was quite as ruthless as your Panduro. Usually they can't catch tetras and pencils. They would have to have some real intent to accomplish that feat. Wow! I think that the "papagei" would be in serious danger of losing their belt.

 

[rsa1]

One last question

OK, one last question and I'll let this thread go. If I regroup fish, I think I'll go with the trio idea rather than risk carnage with a group. Question: Is a 40 gal (36x18 footprint) enough space for a trio of panduros? I'll save the 75 for a colony of something a little more passive (A. borelli perhaps)
Thanks for your help!

 

[tjudy]

:?:
An earlier post described the reluctance of a panduro pair to spawn in the presence of other panduro, or even other fish. That is the first I have heard of this, but it might explain what I have experienced. I have a group in a 20 gallon. Four fish total... only one male. They were all quite small when I got them in July, now they are pushing 2 inches. The pair (dominant female and male) finally laid eggs for the first time this week. It was a small spawn, and the pair ate the eggs after 24 hours. They have not killed any other tankmates.

Might I have better success spawning if I let that pair have the tank al to themsleves?

 

[Randall]

Removing a Pair

Dear Ted,

With a proven pair in hand, it might be better to give them their own space with some added dithers to keep them a tad wary.

Good luck!

Randall Kohn

 

[apistodave]

One more voice to be heard! Nijsenni and Panduro are two apistogramma species that do well in a colony setting provided the tank is large enough and the other conditions are OK. We have had about 100 of them in a 90 gallon tank.