new apisto breeding setup

[regani]

As I am new to breeding apistos I thought I'd post my setup here together with a couple of questions I have and ask for some feedback to make sure I get off to a good start.

The setup I have is a 4ftx2ft tank divided into four sections effectively making it four 2x1ft tanks. I have air-driven sponge filters in each tank set to a slow bubble rate to keep water movement low.
The substrate is fine sand and each tank is decorated with a few pieces of driftwood, some plants (some anubias, java fern and java moss), as well as some leaf litter and some fake plants for additional cover. There are also some pieces of floating pipe in each tank as a refuge.
The level of lighting is fairly low due to the fact that I have only one power point in the garage and want to keep some capacity to expand, so I am running the lights off a 12V transformer (one 1W LED per tank).
There is similar set of tanks below this one with currently no decorations which I plan to use to raise the fry (should I have any).

Here are some pics of the current setup:

The questions I have are:
Is that enough cover for a pair of apistos per tank?
Is it better to have the decorations extend vertically a bit more?
Currently there are glass dividers between the sections, would it better to add some plastic sheets to at least partially block the view to the neighbours?

I have started stocking the tanks with a pair of A. macmasteri, A. trifasciata and A. cacatuoides 'Orange' and things seem to be fine so far.

The water here in Brisbane is fairly hard with high conductivity. After adding dechlorinator, treating with sphagnum moss and diluting with 50% rain water my water parameters are pH 5.8, kH 3-4, 350uS. I currently keep the tanks at 25 degrees Celsius.
Are those water values ok for the above species or should I dilute further with rain water to get the conductivity down?

I also have one more empty tank to fill with some fish. I have narrowed it down to either A. cf agassizii Netz - Alenquer or an A. panduro. From what I have read both are still amongst the 'easier' apistos to keep. Would either of these be ok in the above setup?

Sorry about the long post and the many questions. I am just trying to put my mind at ease that I am not creating problems right from the start.

Any input would be much appreciated.

 

[slimbolen99]

Looks really nice.

You could double or triple the amount of leaves and that will help quite a bit. I rarely see my apistos above the 6-8" high mark in my tanks; unless they are being bullied or they are eating.
I have a question, how do you "treat" with the sphagnum peat moss? Maybe you could do a new topic on how to do that? Very interested in seeing how that is done.

The nice thing from the looks of your setup is that if you end up having babies, you can "steal" them after a time by siphoning to the "raising" tank below...if that makes sense.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,
They look fine, but I would put in some more cover, particularly for A. macmasteri and A. trifasciata. If you haven't got more plants, I like coconut shells, either 1/2's with a notch from the edge, or fairly big broken bits of shell (or bits of clay pot or saucer), to create lots of small caves. I super-glue some moss onto them it grows equally well on coconut shell or ceramic.

I'd also be a little concerned that the 1W LED's won't give enough light to support the growth of even your low light Anubias, ferns and moss. Unfortunately it is really difficult to measure the plant active radiation (PAR) from LEDs, so you will need to watch the plants.

I think the glass dividers with "line of sight" will be fine and will actually help to dither and target the pairs. I'd keep a special eye on your female A. trifasciata, as the males are quite hard on the females.

I'd up the proportion of rain-water for all of them, my suspicion is that your pH meter isn't working properly as I'd expect a higher pH with that level of conductivity. Peat filtration is good, but the humic acids from the peat won't counteract very much dKH at all. A. cacatuoides is fine in harder, "saltier" water, A. macmasteri and A. trifasciata are better in softer water, and A. agassizii "Alenquer" and A. panduro need softer water again.

I really like both the Netz/Alenquer form of agassizii and A. panduro, I think either would do in softer water. If you go for A.panduro you probably need to get a pair in a larger tank, before introducing them to this tank. You may be all right with introducing the female first (but I'd do this for all the species anyway).

I'd also raise the temperature a little bit for growing out the fry, you will have to find what works for you, but about 27oC gives me 50:50 male:females for A. cacatuoides.

cheers Darrel

 

[regani]

Thanks a lot for the feedback, exactly what I was looking for.

I will definitely introduce a bit more cover in the form of a few small terracotta pots and add some additional leaves as well.
I'll try the superglue approach with the java moss, I am assuming that the glue will still work on the java moss if I just dry it with a bit of paper towel?
I will also start using more rain water with the next few water changes to get the conductivity down a bit further, definitely for the Alenquer or panduro.
To determine the pH I use low pH test strips, which should be reasonably accurate, but I'll try to find another way of measuring the pH and confirm that reading.
With regards to the plants, the low light level is a bit of a concern, but I have noticed that some of the anubias have produced new shoots, so I am hopeful that the LEDs are enough, otherwise I can always clip on a second one for each tank.
Will it be enough to raise the temperature once I have some fry or would I be better off doing it now?

I'll post the way I treat the water in another thread.

Thanks again for the feedback, I'll keep you updated on how things are developing in my tanks.

 

[regani]

my suspicion is that your pH meter isn't working properly as I'd expect a higher pH with that level of conductivity

you were spot on with that observation. I took a sample from the tank and got it tested with a properly calibrated pH meter and it showed up as pH 6.7 - that's almost a full unit off! I guess I'll be throwing those pH strips away. I may have to invest in a proper pH probe some time down the track.

ah, well. more rain water it is...

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I am assuming that the glue will still work on the java moss if I just dry it with a bit of paper towel?

Yes you just need to locally dry a bit, and then apply the cyanoacrylate glue. It needs some dampness to cure, and in this case will go off straight away. I you use a little dab you can put the moss in the tank after a couple of minutes.

Will it be enough to raise the temperature once I have some fry or would I be better off doing it now?

I just keep mine at 27oC. It may slightly shorten their life spans, but I haven't noticed this with mine. A trifasciata may be OK a bit cooler (to get 50:50) as it comes from quite a long way South.

You can only really accurately measure pH with an electronic meter that has been calibrated with pH4 and pH7 buffers and has a relatively new reference electrode fitted. I've got some really snazzy pH meters (more correctly the lab. has) but I almost never dip them in the tanks (some of which are in the lab.). I just tend to use a conductivity meter, and keep the conductivity is somewhere between 80 - 120 microS.

cheers Darrel

 

[briztoon]

G'day regani,

Just with the little clay pots. I found my females only liked ones layed on the side if the were against the back, painted wall. Otherwise, they prefered pots sat upright. Quite often they would dig out the sand inside the pot and build up sand around the outside in a cone shape.

 

[regani]

Those sand hills around the pots look really cool, I didn't know they dig this much.

I found my females only liked ones layed on the side if the were against the back, painted wall. Otherwise, they prefered pots sat upright.

The one you see in my picture actually has a leaf wedged between it and the glass so it is not open to that side. But I will get a few more of those pots and try the upright version as that seems to work well.
I'll try to get some slightly larger ones as well and some coconut shells to provide a few more caves and a bit of variety in the available caves as well.

 

[regani]

just an update. the setup seems to work and the first pair have started to spawn (A. macmasteri). I followed the suggestions made and got more leaves in and have a couple of those small terracotta pots as well. A few days ago the female started excavations under a piece of driftwood and yesterday I walked in on mum taking her new babies for a walk.

I would take some pictures if I had a decent enough camera, but then all of you probably have seen thousands of apisto fry already

I got BBS up and running, just fiddeling with the density of the brine to make harvesting a bit easier, and also feed some powdered food for fry. so far so good. there are probably about 30 or so of them. I'll wait and see how many I'll be able to keep alive. keep your fingers crossed for me.

 

[regani]

and now the A. trifasciata have some fry as well. the female is even reasonably nice to the male and allows him to get to within almost 10cm of the fry before she moves to chase him off...

thanks again to everyone who has contributed to this site over time. it is a great resource and has certainly made my start with apistos a lot easier.
now I just need to get more tanks to get some more species in....

 

[regani]

Because everyone loves pictures, I thought I post some updated pics here. I managed to borrow a better camera, now it is just my skills as a photographer that are lacking

The first shot is of one of the breeding tanks that currently has a pair of A. macmasteri in there, the second is of papa macmasteri with some of the fry

and another shot of the male and one of the female