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Mysteriously dying BBS

raymond82

Member
Messages
345
Location
Amsterdam
Hi,

Lately, I'm getting very bad yields from my BBS. I've been using the same method for quite a while now and all though some days have been good as usual, the last month has been quite bad in general. The main problem is that the artemia, once collected from the bottle, immediately sinks to the bottom of the container I put it in. It's alive, but not able to swim up anymore. In addition, it will die overnight, while usually I would manage to keep most of it alive until the next morning. The last two days have been even worse, the artemia seems to have died already in the bottle and has formed aggregates, balls of dead artemia and shells.

This is the method that I use:
~1.4 liters of water (new every day)
50 grams of salt
Room temperature (17-20 degrees Celsius)
I leave it for 48 hours.
The artemia is from a can that was opened in October last year and has been stored in the fridge in a sealed bag in the can. I clean the bottles with bleach every two weeks or so.

This method has worked fine up until a month ago or so, any idea what could cause this?
 

Mike Wise

Moderator
Staff member
5 Year Member
Messages
11,202
Location
Denver, Colorado, U.S.A.
I see nothing that you are doing wrong (I assume you are using dechlorinated water). My guess is that your egg supply has become 'compromised' somehow; maybe it got damp?
 

raymond82

Member
Messages
345
Location
Amsterdam
I'm dreading that the problem is with the cysts indeed, I might have been too careless in the first couple of weeks after opening the can (basically before I asked how the store the eggs on this forum). It just puzzles me that some days it's better than others, but maybe not all the cysts got affected equally.

I have never used dechlorinated water since the dutch water is cleaned using UV instead of chlorine/chloride. However, maybe something is wrong with the water lately, do you use normal dechlorinator with the water for the artemia?
 

Mike Wise

Moderator
Staff member
5 Year Member
Messages
11,202
Location
Denver, Colorado, U.S.A.
I always dechlorinate my water. Denver is 'high & dry' (average annual precipitation <45cm). There is a lot of dust which encourages bacteria in the water supply (mountain reservoirs). Denver Water has used chloramines for decades to increase the time that the water is free of bacteria. If you don't use a dechlorinator on your fish, then you shouldn't need to use it with your BBS. I still think that the freezer is the best place to store eggs (except for 1-2 weeks of eggs). These I still keep in a cooler, drier location - not my warm, humid fishroom.
 

raymond82

Member
Messages
345
Location
Amsterdam
Today was the same thing, now actually most of the artemia hatched but again they appear to be half-dead. Your reply made me think though, in Holland water is usually abundant but the last couple of months have been very dry. It could be that this affects water quality, and maybe the organization responsible for water supply is now treating the water differently. Today I used some dechlorinator, I'll see what the result is the day after tomorrow.
 

raymond82

Member
Messages
345
Location
Amsterdam
Today I collected the first artemia after adding dechlorinator to the water and it looked a lot better! Still it doesn't really swim up from the bottom of the container I collect it in but at least it's alive!
 

Mike Wise

Moderator
Staff member
5 Year Member
Messages
11,202
Location
Denver, Colorado, U.S.A.
When I put my container of BBS on the lid of a tank, they always swim to the bottom. That is where the light is. Once they are in the tank, they swim to the top, where the light is.
 

raymond82

Member
Messages
345
Location
Amsterdam
I think yesterday I might have been a bit too enthusiastic with my post, today again the BBS behaved strangely. Under the microscope I saw a lot of different sizes (which is probably the result of 48 hrs hatching period) but while most BBS were bright orange, a lot of them were completely white. I also noticed quite some that had difficulty swimming, all and all it doesn't look good.

When I put my container of BBS on the lid of a tank, they always swim to the bottom. That is where the light is. Once they are in the tank, they swim to the top, where the light is.

This is what I do see normally, especially the fact that the BBS sinks. I keep it in a plastic champagne glass while feeding and while normally there is a lot of movement at the bottom, now everything looks motionless. However, whenever I put it in the aquarium I see that it's not dead, it just doesn't move much.

Today I set up another bottle with an artemia premix (usually they hatch well) in water that is not dechlorinated. If these hatch normally, then it has to be that the cysts somehow went bad. Although that would surprise me, given the fact that they do hath normally.
 

DBlauj

Member
Messages
132
Were you able to figure out your problem. I too have been having bad batches of minimal artemia. After 24hrs of hatching them I notice what looks like a lot of decapped eggs on the bottom of my hatching vessel and a tiny amount of artemia. I have tried another batch of eggs from Ted Judy with the same results. I also do not dechlorinate and do not use a light source since in the past I have had no need to. The past two batches I have added a light to provide heat. I use the same method to hatch them as you do but am confused as to what may be the problem. My only other question would be could too much water movement be a problem?
 

raymond82

Member
Messages
345
Location
Amsterdam
I haven't figured it out yet, I'm actually looking at another horrible batch now. Again it looks like a lot has hatched but it all seems to be dead. From the Sera prepackaged cysts/salt that I set up yesterday nothing has hatched, I'll check again tomorrow. These usually give high hatching rates so if these also fail it's the water. Today I set up a new batch of the normal artemia with different salt, if that doesn't work I'll buy new cysts in the weekend. Hopefully I'll figure out what the cause is soon cause it's really getting to my nerves now...
 

DBlauj

Member
Messages
132
Please keep me posted as it too is getting on my nerves. I have a ton of fry and aside from bbs I don't have much else to feed them that strikes their interest. I've tried frozen bbs from the LFS with what looks like no luck, I know they don't care for decap eggs. I threw in some Repashy SnG and hope that they are some what nibbling at it, and I've used up what looks like most of my micro worms so I need to figure this out as well.
 

raymond82

Member
Messages
345
Location
Amsterdam
I will, and if you figure out a cause let me know too!!

Luckily I have microworms and grindal to feed, but to me nothing beats a big batch of BBS...
 

Fats

New Member
Messages
28
Location
Greater Manchester,Uk
I too am having the same problems with mine. Taking longer to hatch and there mainly white. My old lot when i drew it from the hatchery the shringe used to be bright orange but now its nothing like that alot are dead and the remaining are white. Im sure i read somewhere about the poor or lack of decent Artemia.

Ian
 

raymond82

Member
Messages
345
Location
Amsterdam
Im sure i read somewhere about the poor or lack of decent Artemia.

It's puzzling, the batch I have used to hatch fine until a couple of weeks ago. Even now a lot hatches, it just dies after that. I'm gonna keep trying and I will post here if I figure anything out!
 

raymond82

Member
Messages
345
Location
Amsterdam
Today the artemia were (almost) back to normal!! That's nice of course, but now I still don't know what caused the problem before, since between this bottle and the one from yesterday I didn't do anything different (and yesterday was really bad). The only thing I can think of is the room temperature, which has risen from ~18 to ~21, as winter has finally ended over here...
 

DBlauj

Member
Messages
132
Good to hear you hatchings are returning to normal for you. It's weird because I have a light as a heat source for the eggs and I am still having bad hatch rates. Maybe with the warm weather things will turn out better for me as well. I'm going to let the eggs run a little longer than 24 hrs, maybe 36 hrs or so and hope that helps with hatching.
 

raymond82

Member
Messages
345
Location
Amsterdam
I always leave the artemia for 48 hours cause room temperature is usually below 20 degrees. In the summer, when the room temperature rises to 23 degrees usually after 24 hours most cysts have hatched. I do notice that the hatching rate went down a lot between right after opening the can and now (6 months later). I think next time I'll buy a smaller quantity.
 

DBlauj

Member
Messages
132
I have what looks like a lot of decapped eggs after 24hrs. I think I'm going to leave them in the solution for another 24 hrs and see what that produces.
 

gerald

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Messages
1,491
Location
Wake Forest NC, USA
If they hatch OK and then die, it sounds like either a water quality or disease problem (bacteria? fungi?). If the eggs went bad from moisture or other reasons, they just wouldn't hatch.
 

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