my first bolivian rams, basic questions

[Sadie123]

Hello, I am new to this site and new to cichlids. So I am glad to be here and I have a few questions, want to be sure I am doing things right. I have a 29 gallon tank, recently changed to sand and have a few other fish, a couple of white clouds, a honey gourami and some cory cats. So 2 weeks ago I bought my first bolivian ram, a male. I wanted a pair but they had no females. So I found a female about a week later. The female is smaller than the male, who appears not to be real small/young. The tank has a hollow log, a cave a smooth stone and one anubias real. There are also several plastic plants. I had a really new neat ceramic log, but it was never used so I took it out and put the cave back in. Now the fish seem to be doing well... at first there was a lot of chasing by the male, but after the first few days, that has decreased to occasional brief chasing. It seems territorial. The female doesn't seem bothered by it much, goes about her business and does not hide. But I guess I would like opinions re. whether I should be concerned about it. The one thing I notice about her is she (I think she is a female) keeps her top ?dorsal fin down most of the time. Is this a concern? Both the fish will go in the log, but neither seems to enjoy being in a sheltered place.
The other thing I wonder about and am a little disappointed about is neither of the fish is coloring up. Both, especially the male, are without much color. After reading, I figure is because my sand is white, and makes them seem or be pale. So I thought I would try adding more plants, which I probably should anyway.
I guess that's it for now. So far there has been no pairing up activity, which is fine with me. I suspect the female is too young. So that may come. If it does, I will have a bunch of new questions!
Oh, I want to get a terra cotta pot and put in turned up on its side for them, do I have to treat it first in some way? I have read no, then someone said boil it for a half hour.
Thanks!

 

[Mike Wise]

Welcome to the apisto forum, Sadie. Your Bolivian Rams (Mikrogeophagus altispinosus) are an excellent beginner cichlid. This species does not use a cave for breeding. It usually lays eggs on the top or side a hard surface (rock, pot, wood) or in a shallow pit in the sand. I don't know who sexed your fish, but I will say that young/small fish are extremely hard to sex. There are no real differences in the sexes until they are fully mature. If your fish are getting along then don't worry about them. Chasing is normal among these cichlids. It is a way for them to determine who is dominant. Good luck and enjoy your fish!

 

[wethumbs]

Mike is right about about they are being difficult to sex when small. Tyically, mature male is larger than female and will eventually develops longer fin extensions. Mature female has a more 'rounded' body as well. I have bred this fish years ago. The best way to get a pair is to buy at least 4 fish, 6 would be more ideal. Putting a male and female together does not guarantee they will pair up.
I even had them spawned in a bare bottom tank.

Here is the how you can calculate the probability of getting at least 1 pair from the amount of fish you buy. This is assuming the group you select from consists of equal male and female (which is a big assumption); or another way to say this is you get an equal chance of selecting a male or female each time you catch a fish from the group.

100 * (1 - 0.5 ^(N-1)) where N is the number of fish you purchased.

For 4 fish, probability of getting at least one pair is 87.5%
For 6 fish, it is 96.9%

 

[Sadie123]

Mike is right about about they are being difficult to sex when small. Tyically, mature male is larger than female and will eventually develops longer fin extensions. Mature female has a more 'rounded' body as well. I have bred this fish years ago. The best way to get a pair is to buy at least 4 fish, 6 would be more ideal. Putting a male and female together does not guarantee they will pair up.
I even had them spawned in a bare bottom tank.

Here is the how you can calculate the probability of getting at least 1 pair from the amount of fish you buy. This is assuming the group you select from consists of equal male and female (which is a big assumption); or another way to say this is you get an equal chance of selecting a male or female each time you catch a fish from the group.

100 * (1 - 0.5 ^(N-1)) where N is the number of fish you purchased.

For 4 fish, probability of getting at least one pair is 87.5%
For 6 fish, it is 96.9%

Thanks to you both for your replies. I guess I am pretty sure the first fish is a male, but the second smaller one, not sure. It is actually darker in color than the larger one. I can tell the first one has the longer fin extensions. So will have to wait and see about the other one. Since I have a 29 gallon tank, could I still get 2 more fish to be sure of a male/female pair? Now that I have had the one for over 2 weeks, would he cause trouble with new fish? Do I need to wait and see what this second one turns out to be?

 

[wethumbs]

29 gallon is abit small if the pair decided to breed. Mature Bolivian rams are fairly large and will most likely claim the entire tank as their territory. I was housing mine in a planted 55gal when I was growing them out. Eventually, I got a pair to spawn and had to remove the remaining group. I got an additional pair from the remaining fish and gave them away to fellow hobbyist to enjoy. Once the pair bonding is well established, they can be house in a smaller aquarium by themselves for breeding purposes. After numerous successful spawns, I gave the first pair to another fellow hobbyist and he was housing them in a 20g high.