Main Differences between Agassizi Tefe and Sp. Tefe

[Dave_m13]

Hi

I am just wondering what the differences are between Agassizi Tefe and Sp. Tefe.

I purchased a pair and was told that the apistogramma was wild caught and from the river tefe. I think they had it advertised as an Agazzissi tefe.

I have been reading through various threads but cannot really work out which is which or what the differences are.

Does anyone have pics of the 2 so I could maybe compare. Also how much should a wild caught one be.

I have seen on apistogramma.com the Agassizi tefe which look very like mine.

Thanks
DAvid

 

[Dave_m13]

Sorry just seen where I have added this thread, please could someone move it to the correct area.

Thanks

 

[Rolo]

I am just wondering what the differences are between Agassizi Tefe and Sp. Tefe.

...just the name! ;-)

Some people think, it's a local form of the high variable species A. agassizii (=A. agassizii "Tefé" or better A. cf. agassizii "Tefé") , and some other people think, it's a close related, but separate species (= A. sp. "Tefé").

regards,
Rolo

 

[Mike Wise]

The Rio Tefé is the home to 2 different forms related to A. agassizii: The true A. agassizii and A. sp. Tefé, a closely related species with wavy lines below (and sometimes above) the lateral band. Cross-breeding the 2 species produces offspring with deformed scales, & lowered breeding productivity. This indicates that they are 2 different species.

The problem now is that commercial suppliers still list A. sp. Tefé as "A. agassizii Tefé", but I have seen fish sold under this name that are true A. agassizii. This is more rare now, however.

 

[ProF_FR]

Hi,

Nice Thread ...

I recently got a pair of splendid Apistogramma cf agassizii Tefé ...

white lines on the tail ... a wonderful fish.

I'll try to catch him with the camera ..

ProF

 

[valice]

The Rio Tefé is the home to 2 different forms related to A. agassizii: The true A. agassizii and A. sp. Tefé, a closely related species with wavy lines below (and sometimes above) the lateral band. Cross-breeding the 2 species produces offspring with deformed scales, & lowered breeding productivity. This indicates that they are 2 different species.

So this means that they are in fact different species?
And we should correctly identify them as either A. cf agassizii 'Tefe' or A. sp 'Tefe' then?

 

[Dave_m13]

Many Thanks for the information, I too will also try and get a photo, have not got a decent camera however so may not be that great.

Also the fish is very dark for some reason, I think that when in the lfs it was in with dark substrate and light. Some how it has changed its colours to be dark to blend in with its surroundings, is this possible? All the Rams were also dark as well, never seen anything like it to be honest.

I do know that the exact same ones in their show tank with light substrate and bright light are very colourful this is why I went for them. I was told that these are wild so would be interesting to know what they are, will get a photo.

Thanks
Dave

 

[Mike Wise]

Hi,

Nice Thread ...

I recently got a pair of splendid Apistogramma cf agassizii Tefé ...

white lines on the tail ... a wonderful fish.

I'll try to catch him with the camera ..

ProF

I believe that there are 2 different species: A. agassizii & A. sp. Tefé. A few others still might consider them a single species, but not many.

 

[lbireley]

I bought some of these at the ACA - I think?

Hi All,
I'm new to the forum. I've been researching the pair of fish I bought at the ACA convention and I think they are these 'Tefe'. There was a tank of adults in the sales room. The seller listed them as 'Blue Trim' Apistogramma. They were pretty so I bought them (sounds corny but I hadn't kept Apistos before only West Africans). They looked like agassizii to me so I labeled them that on my tank.

Well this pair have spawned and spawned and spawned since I brought them home in July - about 100 each time (8/5, 9/17, 11/12). The oldest are getting big - I kept 8 and sold/traded/BAP'ed the rest as what I bought them as. The youngsters look normal - not tweaked. The male has gotten huge and starting to look like a grandpa so is not as much bluish/white trim as when younger but still stunning. Strange, the female is much more robust and I thought SHE did most of the work.

So I recently did an internet search to find what they really were. This led me to decide to join the ASG. No one lists 'blue trim' but I did find pictures and descriptions that fit my fish to a T - Apisto. cf. agassizi 'Tefe'. They are in a 30 gallon breeder flat so my pics have not turned out well - I'm still trying.

So does anyone who was at the ACA in Chicago remember seeing these fish for sale? I forget the name of the guy selling them, someone fairly well-known from the east coast, an older gentleman. Could they be Tefe? Oh, and how long do agassizii adults tend to live after reaching spawning age?
Thanks!
Laura B

 

[Mike Wise]

You bought your Blue Trim Agassizii from Tony Orso - as did I. It is a very beautiful red tailed fish with orange on the dorsal & anal, a blue sheen to the top of the body & some yellow toward the breast & face. It is similar to the fish pictured in Aqualog SACII (p. 18, bottom left, S03332-4) listed as A. agassizii "East-Redtail". It is a domestic color variant of A. agassizii (senus lato). I belive that it is a cross between the true A. agassizii (dometic red-tail strain) and A. cf. agassizii (Net) Alenquer ... and who knows what else. In this respect it is like a red Swordtail/Helleri - a cross of 2 species to bring out its colors. I would continue calling the Blue Trim or Red-tail Blue-trim A. agassizii. Like I said, a very beautiful fish.

 

[lbireley]

Thanks Mike! Just the info I needed. My original thought was this was some German aquarium strain very pretty. Not usually a hybrid person myself but they've done the deed - more apistos to come for me.

 

[Mike Wise]

Actually, they are from Czech suppliers who get their fish from several sources in eastern Europe. The "East-Redtail" was originally developed by former East German hobbyists who had a good reputation for producing quality color strains. When these strains were developed, we had little understanding of how diverse the A. agassizii 'superspecies' was. Now that several populations seem to be genetically isolated species, we tend to avoid crossing wild populations without good reason. I don't condem development of some of the highly colored apistos strains out there - as long as they are sold as such.

 

[ProF_FR]

Hi,

I finally got a descent pic of mine but not showing that much details :

I love that fish

ProF

 

[Mike Wise]

ProF,

I cannot be positively certain from just 1 photo, but your male looks like A. cf. agassizii Netz/Net, possibly from around Alenquer, Brazil. Are wavy burgundy coloured bands ever visible on the flanks of the fish?

 

[ProF_FR]

Hi Mike,

No i never noticed such bands on his flanks. I'll try to make more photos but not much time and he's a bit shy

ProF

 

[tleehm]

Similar fish is imported from Asia as "Tefe redback" as well. Definitely has the sparkling body resembling the sp. Tefe.

Thomas.

 

[Mike Wise]

A. sp. Tefé can easily be separated from A. agassizii by the presence of wavy bands across the flanks. A. agassizii is highly polychromatic. There are brilliant forms and dull forms, too.

 

[ProF_FR]

Hi,

Mike i tried to peep a little more at my fish but with the colored water its not that easy. Aslo i'm not sure i really understand " wavy bands".

My fish gets a very wide range of colorotions according to his mood, his female mood ( lol, like us, isn't it ? ) and so on. Burgundy is like the color of red wine am i right ?

ProF

 

[Mike Wise]

See: http://www.rva.ne.jp/apisto/agassizii_tefe_ca_y.html. This is A. sp. Tefé. They show wavy burgundy red wine bands on the abdomen (sometimes also on the back, above the lateral band).

See: http://images.google.com/imgres?img...?q=agassizii+Alenquer&svnum=10&hl=en&lr=&sa=N.
This is A. cf. agassizii (Net) Alenquer. Note that the dark pigment is narrower & surrounds the scale more than on A. sp. Tefé.

 

[ProF_FR]

Thanks Mike,

Well hard to say .. the caudale shape is very similar to the Tefe..., not as long as the alenquer. It is very much less red wine color that is sure. In real, his head is less yellow than on the pic.

The closest fish of the set at rva site is the last one.... my fish looks very similar...
I'm lost now .... I bought them under the name of agassizii cf Tefe thats all i know ..

ProF