Ketepang leaf

[beleg]

My family sent me some ketepang leaves form Indonesia. Are they the right thing? They have these dots on the leaf, are they safe?.. Can i use right after
washing?

 

[Arcadianred]

You sure can. A quick wash and just pop them in the tanks as they are. You can place them in the filter instead by crumbling and place in a teabag arrangement. I just break mine into slightly smaller pieces and put in the tank. They will float for a while but will sink eventually. They will soften the water slightly, make it more acidic and also have anti bacterial and anti fungal properties - the fish love em !!!!

 

[lab]

I'm sorry, but they don't look like ketapang leaves. I don't know what they are, and I certainly would not use them without knowing what they are.

Look here for comparison:
http://www.arofanatics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=245456

Lars

 

[Arcadianred]

They look like the smae leaf to me - just flattened. This is what i use in my tank.

Mark

 

[ed seeley]

These look identical to the leaves on a fig I am growing. It was an IKEA purchase. Here's a picture of what looks like the same or a very similar species.
http://www.denverplants.com/foliage/html/fily.htm

It looks very like your leaves. Veination, size texture and the wavy edges are identical to my fig. The dots look like something on the leaf, maybe like honeydew spots?

 

[beleg]

Well i washed and put one in my tank.
The tree is found in abundence in Indonesia (Terminalia catappa). This specimen they collected grows very near to sea. I assume it must be the right tree. However its very easy to get confused about tropical tree leaves.

Some of the leaves are very large (almost as big as my face) as you can see in the first picture.

Perhaps its not the right plant after all? I noticed that the vein count are also different on those leaves. And is identical to the one in eds link?..

 

[beleg]

Meanwhile i have read some Indo/Malay forums, they even suggest using Papaya leaves for acidifying water. Perhaps most plants leaves can be used?

P.S. The leaves are flat because i asked my family in law to iron them for me ..

 

[beleg]

These look identical to the leaves on a fig I am growing. It was an IKEA purchase. Here's a picture of what looks like the same or a very similar species.
http://www.denverplants.com/foliage/html/fily.htm

It looks very like your leaves. Veination, size texture and the wavy edges are identical to my fig. The dots look like something on the leaf, maybe like honeydew spots?

Ed,
Yes the leaves look similar however the plant that the leaves were taken is a huge outdoor plant. Maybe its a relative? I asked about the dots on the leaf. Maybe they are the honeydew from the fruit like you suggest.

 

[ed seeley]

Ficus lyrata grows much bigger when grown outside, but looking at pictures of both leaves on the web they are amazingly alike and you may well have Terminalia leaves. Apparently Terminlalia often grow near the the sea too so your collection site sounds right!
They're not very closely related at all, according to current classifications at least - convergent evolution in action I think!

 

[lab]

These look identical to the leaves on a fig I am growing. It was an IKEA purchase. Here's a picture of what looks like the same or a very similar species.
http://www.denverplants.com/foliage/html/fily.htm

It looks very like your leaves. Veination, size texture and the wavy edges are identical to my fig. The dots look like something on the leaf, maybe like honeydew spots?

They are not T. cattapa!!! If they are fig leaves they could be poisoning to your fish

Ed described their appearance very precise. Ketapang leaves do not have wavy edges like your leaves and the veination is different. Please look at the pictures I linked to. The difference is quite obvious. How can you put something in your aquarium, if you are not sure what it is

 

[beleg]

Well i don't think that dry leaves like this can be extremely poisonous to fish. After all someone must have tried the Adler cones or Ketapangs leaves for the first time. Its a risk but i think i will take it.

Even Papaya leaves are being used according to what i read. If i see any erratic behavior in the fish or degrading in water quality i will remove the leaves.

 

[lab]

nevertheless it has been written on several occasions in this forum that fig leaves are toxic. By all means take your chances with your own fish.
Just be aware that a simple survival test tells you nothing about the long term effects.

 

[lab]

Btw you may also want to try dried tobacco leaves, since you are so convinced about the lack of toxins in dried leaves:wink:

 

[beleg]

I don't smoke.. Wont let my fish smoke as well.. :biggrin:
Actually i did search the forum about Fig leaves and could not find a post regarding toxicity. I accept that any leaf with sap can be dangerous for fish no matter what the plant is. But Terminalia species also have some toxic elements in them ,thus its antibacterial/anti fungal..

Anyway, if its tested and approved its no use trying it again. I will remove the leaf once i go home.

 

[beleg]

Ficus lyrata grows much bigger when grown outside, but looking at pictures of both leaves on the web they are amazingly alike and you may well have Terminalia leaves. Apparently Terminlalia often grow near the the sea too so your collection site sounds right!
They're not very closely related at all, according to current classifications at least - convergent evolution in action I think!

Ed it seems F. lyrata is also found in abundance in Indonesia. So its very likely that the person who collected made a mistake.

The leaves look quite different in my opinion. The amount of veins in F. lyrata is much less than T. species.

Thank you for identifying the leaf. Its been much help.

 

[beleg]

Ok.. Finally got my hands on some Ketapang leaves. The leaves can be seen in the tanks in this topic (http://www.forum.apistogramma.com/showthread.php?t=6211). I put one leaf for each tank (30l/10g) however i haven't seen this tea color effect caused by tannins. It has been a week now.Can this be due to the high hardness of the water (KH 4 , pH 7.5) ? Do the tannins have less effect of coloring water in high hardness?

I'll slowly reduce the pH and hardness of the water starting from this weeks water changes.

 

[valice]

If you want to create that tannin effect, what you can do is to tear up the leaves into smaller pieces. And you can afford to put in 2-3 leaves for that tank size of yours.

You will get that nice tea coloured water after 2 to 3 days.

 

[puertoayacucho]

Ketapang leaves and hard water

Hi guys, I've been using Sea Almond leaves for several months now in both soft water (pure r/o) and hard water (260ppm), it does take more time to observe any staining effect in hard water of course. If your water is very soft, you'll note the staining within hours.

The number of leaves you use in a volume of water is important (1 large leaf per 10-15 gallons of water are recommended) as well as the time and manner the leaves are recollected. A large leaf can measure 10 to 12 inches. A good Ketapang leaf will produce a very light amber coloration in a ten gallon tank.

Those who are serious about harvesting these leaves, that is, that they depend on the income from selling the leaves to a certain point, let the leaves fall off the trees on their own and collect the reddosh brown to darker brown leaves. These leaves have the higher concentration of tannins and other important phytochemicals (i.e. terpenes, phenols).

You might also consider making an infusion from the leaves using very warm r/o water or pre-softened water.

I personally use a mixture of peat, oak and ketapang and make my own "extract" by simmering leaves and peat in pure r/o water for several hours. I use about 2 cups of crumbled ketapang leaves, 1 cup crumbled oak leaves and 1 cup peat per 2 gallons of water. I let the volume of water reduce to 1 gallon. Hey, my cups take about 16 ounces, big cups!!!

About the soft water and hard water and the use of peat, ketapang and similar. It all comes down to the concept of "buffering capacity". We might have read how alkalinity (buffering capacity) affects pH but actually it affects most if not all chemical reactions in water. The harder the water, the higher its buffering capacity and the less reactive acids become in such a liquid. This of course includes tannic and humic acids.

Mrs. Amy Lim (<[email protected]>) and her family are one of the larger sellers of ketapang leaves and extracts and sells good quality products, you might want to contact her.

Ed

 

[beleg]

Thanks Ed.
There were some Ketapang trees near my in laws house and my wife collected some for me. Actually their driver did and only a few of the leaves are reddish. They are mostly light brown. I realized if i let them dry under sun for a few days they release a darker tan color but no change in pH due to high KH.