I dont know if Apistogramma Panduro or Njisseni

[Serguey]

So like in the description I need help with these two , I got a male anx 4 females two females loom like this one the other two look totally different. I got the other two females from a store and the male and these two females from a breeder, the breeder said they were panduros , but when I bought the other females from the store I noticed they look different with the black spots problem is I wanna breed the panduros but nothinh is happening so I wondered ccold you guys help me identify if they are panduros or not. Thanks allot for incoming help

 

[aquaticclarity]

A. panduro. Female panduro get the smudge on their side while female nijssenii get a spot. Male panduro also get the sky blue color (also a nick name for them) while nijssenii males are much more dirty gold in the body.

 

[Chromedome]

Female nijsseni have the unique large blotch, and panduro has a smaller mark similar to other Apistos. In addition, the female nijsseni gets a black blotch on the face and cheeks. I have images of nijsseni from the very early imports that show males with solid blue body color. A better way to tell males apart is to look at the anterior rays of the dorsal. Male nijsseni have no elongated rays, while panduro males have a slight elongation on a few of them.

From the photos above, the female is clearly nijsseni. The male I would be hesitant to put a positive ID from those photos.

 

[Mike Wise]

Truthfully, the photos of the females are not good enough for me to say what species the fish are. I will add to the confusion by noting that there are 2 morphs of female A. panduro. One morph has a narrower, elongated blotch on the flanks, wider at the belly and almost reaching the base of the dorsal fin. The second morph has a more round blotch on the flanks, which extends from the belly to mid-flank. All them males show the same dark markings.

 

[rr16]

Good luck with getting some more photos and identifying them. I had a male that turned out to be A. nijsseni and a female A. panduro. They still bred and produced fry!
Mike, are the two forms of the female geographically isolated, or related to the different male forms (A183/184/185) or something completely different?

 

[Mike Wise]

Mike, are the two forms of the female geographically isolated, or related to the different male forms (A183/184/185) or something completely different?

The Brustband/Breastband morph was the original morph in the hobby and the female pictured in the original description. Later, the morph with a round black blotch appeared. It seems to be the more common morph in the trade now. The Brustband morph was found at the Río Tahuayo type locality by Panduros' collectors of the type material and, later, by TomC. Tom found round morph females in the Río Tamshiyacu. Tom found males of both non-striped and striped caudal fin morphs together in both rivers, so the males' caudal pattern isn't location-specific. I don't know if both female morphs appear together at one location, but so far they do not.

 

[rr16]

Ooh, the speciation/radiation/variation just gets more and more interesting. I think I should swat up on all this at some point. Perhaps I best get some books on my Christmas list from the wife!