How does behavior or a. ladislao compare to a. wolli ?

[anewbie]

I realize both of these species are from nijjensi complex and such they will form breeding partners. However is much known about relative aggression to others or territory size? Can bother species be treated as pretty identical or are their distinct behavioral differences ?

 

[MacZ]

Can bother species be treated as pretty identical or are their distinct behavioral differences ?

Usually you can treat most species identical. It boils down to: If you haven't heard anything pointing towards peculiarities (like the almost abnormal peacefulness of A. borellii or the divergent mating constellations in the A. nijsseni-group) while doing a superficial research on the internet you can expect not to hear anything massively different in terms of behaviour.

 

[anewbie]

Usually you can treat most species identical. It boils down to: If you haven't heard anything pointing towards peculiarities (like the almost abnormal peacefulness of A. borellii or the divergent mating constellations in the A. nijsseni-group) while doing a superficial research on the internet you can expect not to hear anything massively different in terms of behaviour.

Well I think both Mike and Tom have kept so they might have some first hand information. There is a note on Tom's site that Wolli was actually quite passive relative to most Nijjensi complex fishes but those comments predate ladislao.

 

[MacZ]

And this is why I didn't say something specific about these two. But there you have a hint, I'd actually tag them if I were you.

 

[haveagoodtime]

hey there, from what i've heard ladislao tends to be a bit more chill compared to wolli. But obviously there's some variation between individuals. I had a wolli pair that were pretty mellow but know others who had feistier ones.

 

[Mike Wise]

I have kept A. wolli as a species maintenance project since I collected them in 2012 (for 12 years, how time flies). I have not kept Ladislao, however. My experience with wolli is that they are very outgoing and not at all shy. Males can be very rough on other males but tend to be less so toward females. I have never kept them mixed with other apistos so I can't say for sure how they behave toward other species. I'm kind of surprised about the comparison between Ladislao and wolli behavior because almost no one has had the opportunity to keep both. Most of the wolli that I've distributed in the US (where they were never imported commercially) were rarely bred, probably because of lack of effort on the hobbyist's part. I still breed wolli in soft, moderately acid water, like what we collected them in. If I had the choice, I'd probably choose Ladislao only because it show more color on the face, although A. wolli have bluer flanks and longer extension of the lyre tail from photos that I've seen. Whichever you choose do not buy less that 6. Females, at least for A. wolli, can be choosy about breeding partners.

 

[anewbie]

I have kept A. wolli as a species maintenance project since I collected them in 2012 (for 12 years, how time flies). I have not kept Ladislao, however. My experience with wolli is that they are very outgoing and not at all shy. Males can be very rough on other males but tend to be less so toward females. I have never kept them mixed with other apistos so I can't say for sure how they behave toward other species. I'm kind of surprised about the comparison between Ladislao and wolli behavior because almost no one has had the opportunity to keep both. Most of the wolli that I've distributed in the US (where they were never imported commercially) were rarely bred, probably because of lack of effort on the hobbyist's part. I still breed wolli in soft, moderately acid water, like what we collected them in. If I had the choice, I'd probably choose Ladislao only because it show more color on the face, although A. wolli have bluer flanks and longer extension of the lyre tail from photos that I've seen. Whichever you choose do not buy less that 6. Females, at least for A. wolli, can be choosy about breeding partners.

Ok thanks. I was under the impression that Tom had kept them both since he has notes on both but maybe they are notes from other people. My intention now is to put two male a. wolli in a 29 with either 2 or 4 female (i've asked alex if he has extra females). If the males pose a problem with each other i'll move the other male and extra female to the a. bitaeniata aquarium (which is around 100 gallons). I know at least 5 of the 8 bitaeniata are alive and i suspect all 8 but in truth they are very hard to locate because that aquarium is such a mess of twigs/leaves. If they are breeding in that aquarium i never see it.
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I will put one or two pairs of ladislao with the i. bimaculata i have which is ~65-70 gallon. Like wise if i observe issues i will try to move things around - i have a 180 with some b. cupido so it has a lot of room but that aquarium is not true blackwater (yet?) unlike the other 3 aquariums. Unfortunately i will not be setting up anymore aquarium - i did setup the 29 for the wolli which makes #15. I do have an etremely well scaped 10 available but i think it is too small for these larger fishes. I did think about skipping the one of the two species but if one of the two species proves passive they should work with the bimaculata which so far have been extremely well behaved and seem to leave about 1/2 the tank unoccupied most of the time.
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I'm still puzzling out the ortegai which are in my other 65. I added a third female (so 1 m 3 f). I've not seen much in breeding behavior but also the fishes have been extremely passive towards each other. One of the female seem more dominant but the amount of chasing is very small - mostly a threat is made and the other 2 female simply move off without any conflict. My winkelfleck have shown more chasing than the ortegai . Either i have very passive fishes; young fishes or the extra space allows them to avoid conflict.
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The reason i setup the 29 for the wolli is i would like to breed the species - always a question of what to do with the frys since i won't sell fishes but if i can't find hobbist who want them i can always give them away to the petstore. Anyway premature as they might not breed for me.
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Totally unrelated i've been extremely shocked by the breeding behavior of my krobia xinguensis; they guard the frys extremely well but do almost no damage to the other cichild in their aquarium (they were not put in that aquarium to breed; i didn't even realize they were pairs until they started breeding every month like clockwork. Those things are like rabbits. It is not a fish in care for but maybe i don't give them enough credit.

 

[Mike Wise]

6 adult A. wolli in a 29? I see mayhem. I had 2 males in a similar size tank and had to put a separator between them, otherwise one would be dead. Females can be just as bad or worse. Once a breeding pair forms others will not be welcome in such a limited size tank. I set up a breeding tank for wolli by adding 1 male/2 females to a 20 long. When I find one of the females hiding at the top of the tank - or dead - I know I have a pair ready to breed.

4 Ladislao might survive in a 65 with a breeding pair of I. adoketa, but I wouldn't bet on it.

 

[anewbie]

6 adult A. wolli in a 29? I see mayhem. I had 2 males in a similar size tank and had to put a separator between them, otherwise one would be dead. Females can be just as bad or worse. Once a breeding pair forms others will not be welcome in such a limited size tank. I set up a breeding tank for wolli by adding 1 male/2 females to a 20 long. When I find one of the females hiding at the top of the tank - or dead - I know I have a pair ready to breed.

4 Ladislao might survive in a 65 with a breeding pair of I. adoketa, but I wouldn't bet on it.

They are i. bimaculata which i believe are much more passive than adoketa.

For the 29 it was just until a pair form; what would you recommend? My intention is to remove the extra from the 29 to a 180 which has some b. cupido and not a whole lot more. Would you recommend 1 male with 2 or 3 female until a pair forms ? The 29 is intended as a breeding tank for a. wolli.

 

[Tom C]

I was under the impression that Tom had kept them both since he has notes on both ...

You're right, I have kept A. wolli, and I keep a large group of A. sp. Ladislao now.
I received 2 wild pairs, and because of lack of space (as always), I put them all in the same (heavily planted) tank. After a couple of days only one pair swam in the front of the tank, the other pair was only seen now and then. The latter were chased when they showed up, but not violently. When they disappeared among the plants, the dominent pair stopped the chase.
So i will not say they are as aggressive as others members of this genus sometimes are, at least I havent seen that.
Short after the dominant female started to dig out sand from under a piece of wood, so the subordinate pair found a new home in another aquarist's tank. My remaining pair bred successfully.

 

[anewbie]

You're right, I have kept A. wolli, and I keep a large group of A. sp. Ladislao now.
I received 2 wild pairs, and because of lack of space (as always), I put them all in the same (heavily planted) tank. After a couple of days only one pair swam in the front of the tank, the other pair was only seen now and then. The latter were chased when they showed up, but not violently. When they disappeared among the plants, the dominent pair stopped the chase.
So i will not say they are as aggressive as others members of this genus sometimes are, at least I havent seen that.
Short after the dominant female started to dig out sand from under a piece of wood, so the subordinate pair found a new home in another aquarist's tank. My remaining pair bred successfully.

Ok thanks. I'm a bit confused on what to do with the Wolli - they are going in the 29. I will start with 2 male and 4 female; should i just put 1 male and 2 female in the tank and the other 3 hold elsewhere or throw them all in the 29 and when a pair form then remove the other 4 fishes ? The biggest problem i have with putting 3 in the 29 and the other 3 in another is none of the other tank will leave the fishes very catch-able. The b. cupido tank is 4 feet square so quite large and quite sparse in population but a little too wide to easily reach the middle. The a. bitaeniata aquairum is 100 gallon jungle mess of leaves and twigs - in addition to having competition from the bitaeniata which have established their territories it is order of months that i see more than the dominant male (I did see 5 2 weeks ago and 4 yesterday).
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I guess my question is the violence of the wolli so great that even for a couple of weeks while waiting for them to pair up i'll risk the loss of the other fishes that i should immediately sep them or will they take a little while to sort things out at which time i can remove the extra. Yes i consider a 29 very small these days but it was the only empty aquarium i had available for this project. I guess i could remove the wc cockatoo from the 40 but the 40 has totally wrong type of water.

 

[rasmusW]

You're right, I have kept A. wolli, and I keep a large group of A. sp. Ladislao now.
I received 2 wild pairs, and because of lack of space (as always), I put them all in the same (heavily planted) tank. After a couple of days only one pair swam in the front of the tank, the other pair was only seen now and then. The latter were chased when they showed up, but not violently. When they disappeared among the plants, the dominent pair stopped the chase.
So i will not say they are as aggressive as others members of this genus sometimes are, at least I havent seen that.
Short after the dominant female started to dig out sand from under a piece of wood, so the subordinate pair found a new home in another aquarist's tank. My remaining pair bred successfully.

Sorry to hijack your thread, anewbie….

Just out of curiosity.. -TomC, how many different apisto species do you keep atm. or at an average?

-now, continue the thread. I’m sorry i don’t have advice to give here.

-r

 

[Tom C]

Ok thanks. I'm a bit confused on what to do with the Wolli - they are going in the 29. I will start with 2 male and 4 female; should i just put 1 male and 2 female in the tank and the other 3 hold elsewhere or throw them all in the 29 and when a pair form then remove the other 4 fishes ?

I would just put all in the 29... I import all my fishes directly from South America, and of course I will have more than one pair of each species, just in case. So I always throw all the fishes of the same species and location in the same tank, when I receive the shipment.
In my most recent shipment, in May, I received (among many others) 2 pairs of A. sp. "D11". They went in a tank together, but then I noticed that this tank had a small leak, so, out of free tank-space, I had to put them all provisionally in a small 12 liter (!) tank (with lots of wood and a little water) for a few weeks.
I shouldn't be surprised by what happened, but even if this has happened before, I am. These wonderful fishes never cease to amaze me:

Of course, If you can easily replace any rejected or lost fish, I would consider buying only a pair. It happens quite often that they like each other, and "any port in a storm"...

-TomC, how many different apisto species do you keep atm. or at an average?

Always between 30 and 40, Rasmus. All directly from Peru and Colombia, and most of them collected on my request.

 

[Mike Wise]

I would put all 6 fish in the 29 and keep an eye out, like Tom wrote. You will have to remove the non-breeders as soon as possible or risk losses.