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Help ID apistogramma

Frank Hättich

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
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552
Location
Germany
They are indeed a species from the agassizii-Netz-subcomplex. Which one I can't tell for sure, because I have seen similar fishes from different locations among them Alenquer. So I would refer to these fish just as A. sp. aff. agassizii (Netz).

Edit: It seems that Mike was some seconds too fast for me ;)
 
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Bramgroet

Member
Messages
166
Mike would you say that it is wildcaught. Is there anyway I can know where they are from. Is there any info over the A. Cf. Agassizii netz about keeping them, water parameters, breeding, behavior etc. Is it okay to keep them with a ph of 6,5 and a gh of 4. And if they lay eggs will the eggs survive with these water paramenters. These are a lot of questions but I hope someone can help?

Thank you for taking a look at the fish.
 

Frank Hättich

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5 Year Member
Messages
552
Location
Germany
As I use the term "aff." (abreviation for the Latin "affinis") it means that the fish in question is similar but most likely not identical to the named species, in this case to A. agassizii. Note that terms like "aff." and "cf." can have slightly different meanings when used by different people since there is no fixed set of rules for them.
 

Bramgroet

Member
Messages
166
So if I understand it right this apistogramma species is a whole other apistogramma sp that just looks like the Agassizii or is it just a form of a Agassizii? I also see people use the name A. cf Agassizii net/netz for this species. Does anyone have info about the A. sp. aff Agassizii netz about water parameters, keeping and breeding. And if it is the A. cf Agassizii netz is it probably wildcaught ?
Thanks for the help
 
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Frank Hättich

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5 Year Member
Messages
552
Location
Germany
I (and Mike too) believe that the A. cf./sp. aff. agassizii (Netz) forms are different species than A. agassizii. Here you find how the species of the agassizii-Netz-subcomplex are distinguished from those of the agassizii-subcomplex.

Don't worry too much about some people preferring "cf." or "aff.". These are usually taken to just express a slighty different degree of certainty about the fish being a species separate from the named one. Usually "aff." is taken to express a higher certainty than "cf." but this need not always be the case.

Whether your fish are wild caught or not I can't tell.
 

Bramgroet

Member
Messages
166
Oke I think I understand thanks for the info. I have read that the A. Sp. aff. Agassizii (netz) is a Clearwater species. So a ph of 6,5 will be alright for breeding to and gh 4-5 ? And is the breeding hard?
 

Bramgroet

Member
Messages
166
And do you have an explanation about why the females are already yellow but show almost no interess in the male. Atleast the big dominant female shows a little interes en the smaller non dominant female shows none?
 

Mike Wise

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11,160
Location
Denver, Colorado, U.S.A.
A. cf. agassizii (Netz) (I only use "cf." because that is what it was originally labled as by Koslowski; "sp. affin." is probably more accurate) is found in blackwater and mixed clear/blackwater environments, depending on the location and time of year. Most are fairly adaptable to pH values <7. Breeding is no harder than other agassizii-forms/species from similar environments.

As for your yellow females, they might be ready to breed but haven't found the right male yet. Remembrer, it is the females who choose with whom they breed. Also dominant females sometimes show brood colors just to show their dominance.
 

Bramgroet

Member
Messages
166
As for your yellow females, they might be ready to breed but haven't found the right male yet. Remembrer, it is the females who choose with whom they breed. Also dominant females sometimes show brood colors just to show their dominance.
Oke but both of the females are here are some pictures. Should I just wait cause the male does try to flirt and also the shop said the already laid eggs sometime although I don’t have proof of this. The females in the pictures are the 2 different females.

So should I wait or get looking for a different male which will almost be impossible to get. Do you think there is still a change that they will lay eggs because they are in the tank just 4 days. That’s why I found it remarkable that they are both already yellow.
4EAF9884-97BE-463C-9F1B-706E7CDBCEA2.jpeg
200683FE-3D74-4E75-BA1C-B33B4982832B.jpeg
 

MacZ

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,891
Location
Germany
That’s why I found it remarkable that they are both already yellow.
Oh, when we say yellow here on the forum we mean the wasp like colouration as in the second picture, which definitely is the dominant female. The other one is the base colouration of a non-dominant female.
 

Bramgroet

Member
Messages
166
I will post another picture of what you think is the non dominant female. Also the thing is that the second female is smaller and is certainly not the dominant female cause this female is getting chased around more often I have to say the aggression is now really low but this can change of course. Also the according to you dominant female has almost zero interaction with the male.

Edit: I now can’t find according to you dominant female so either she laid eggs, is really good at hiding or dead which would be a big bummer. I hear a lot that people can’t find there female and then when they find the female she has laid eggs but I do not know if that is the case here cause I don’t see anybody get chased if it something like that.
image.jpg
image.jpg
 
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Bramgroet

Member
Messages
166
Update:
I found her she is now just swimming trough the tank. But she is indeed really yellow so I don’t know what is going on there. Also sometimes the lateral band vanishes a little and a dot becomes visible. Here some pictures from just yet.
CA7BD8CB-52CA-4421-B2D8-1173603F3083.jpeg

image.jpg
 

MacZ

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,891
Location
Germany
The first picture in the last post looks like she's trying to entice him to follow her. Good sign.
But pictures don't always say everything. Videos would be better.
 

Bramgroet

Member
Messages
166
I thought that to the male followed her around for a minute but then they stopped. But do you think she is yellow because she is ready to breed or to show dominance which would be remarkable because she is smaller en does not show dominance to the other female.
 

MacZ

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,891
Location
Germany
I thought that to the male followed her around for a minute but then they stopped.
She'll be luring him towards her cave again and again until he follows her all the way.
But do you think she is yellow because she is ready to breed or to show dominance which would be remarkable because she is smaller en does not show dominance to the other female.
Spawning: Absolutely.
Dominance: Comes with that automatically. Once she has prepared a spawning cave she will show aggression towards the other female if she comes too close.
 

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