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Help ID apistogramma

Bramgroet

Member
Messages
182
Hello,
This Friday I bought a trio apistogramma gephyra. 1 male and 2 females. The male is almost fully grown. The females to? They already laid eggs was told to me. I think the male is really beautiful and I really enjoy watching their behavior. The male is already flirting with the dominant female. He opens up his fins and then shakes his fins in the females face. The female however is not really interested. But both of the females are yellow but I am sure they don’t have eggs. Could someone explains this to me?

They tank they are in is 55 gallon.
The ph is 6,5
The kh is 3
The gh is 4
with them there are 2 colomesus asselus and
3 corydoras (planning to get more of them but first I am going to look how the apistos react to them.)
And I am planing to get a school fish to.

Also I am not sure wether they really are A.gephyra. They might be A. Agassizii tefe or A. Agassizii netz. I think they are a wild form. The shop told me that they were probably WC (they don’t know for sure because they ordered other fish and got these ones in. I don’t know which fishes they ordered). On the pictures the red seam on the top of the dorsal fin looks yellowish but IRL it looks more red. Also the Aquariumwater is on the picture less brown then IRL. Could anyone help me with ID these fish?
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image.jpg
 

MacZ

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,050
Location
Germany
Could well be A. gephyra. For an absolute distinction if wild caught you'd need to know the place they got caught. I'd say they're not A. agassizii "Tefe", but "Netz" are still in the race.

Tank looks great, I have to say I doubt the structure is sufficient, though. The puffers are probably not the best tankmates. Neither are the Corydoras.
 

Bramgroet

Member
Messages
182
The rock on the top left is coming down soon the wood just needed to sink. Also the stick on the left are sinking now so I will put them down right. The puffers do not do any harm the will probably steal some fry but I am not going to breed them for a profit or something like that. Also they still leave the corys so it’s still going well. The tank looks much better IRL also it looks more natural IRL.

But why do you think the females are yellow but not breeding. Especially the non dominant female is really yellow but has almost no interaction with the male.

About the gephyra I think the shop ordered wild apistogramma sp. that is similair to the gephyra but got these. Also I saw a article where it said that almost all gephyra in the trade are wildcaught.
 

MacZ

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,050
Location
Germany
The rock on the top left is coming down soon the wood just needed to sink. Also the stick on the left are sinking now so I will put them down right.
It's easier to first have the tank ready before buying the fish. Especially as vital things as structure.
The puffers do not do any harm the will probably steal some fry
Will see. Never seen the combination of Apistos and Puffers work out.
Also they still leave the corys so it’s still going well.
Wait until there is a spawn...
but I am not going to breed them for a profit or something like that.
Display tanks =/= breeding tanks. I'd probably not taken any females for a display like this one.
The tank looks much better IRL also it looks more natural IRL.
No doubt, but I'm not talking about aesthetics.
But why do you think the females are yellow but not breeding. Especially the non dominant female is really yellow but has almost no interaction with the male.
They are in your tank for less than 3 days. Let that sink in and give them time. Also the caves have much too big openings.
 

MacZ

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,050
Location
Germany
About the gephyra I think the shop ordered wild apistogramma sp. that is similair to the gephyra but got these. Also I saw a article where it said that almost all gephyra in the trade are wildcaught.
Depends on the country you live in. In some you get mostly wild caughts, in some more tankbred.
 

Bramgroet

Member
Messages
182
It's easier to first have the tank ready before buying the fish. Especially as vital things as structure.
This tank is already running since 4 years en the scape has changed overtime. The tank is already done I just need to remove one stone it does not change the scape. The tank also has a lot of hiding places.
Wait until there is a spawn...
I think you’re right that is the reason I did not already buy more corydoras I am first going to see how it will go.
Display tanks =/= breeding tanks. I'd probably not taken any females for a display like this one.
You’re right but I am not trying to breed them. What I want is natural behavior and that is not throwing them in a tank which is only made for breeding. I have I pretty big tank for apistogramma as only bottem fish except for the 3 Cory’s. My goal is not to breed them but breeding is part of natural behavior. I don’t want a lot of fry or something I just want to see the parental behavior. I know that real natural behavior you only see in the wild but at home we can do the best we can. Because my tank is big enough I think that I have the space for some breeding. But breeding just is not my main focus.
They are in your tank for less than 3 days. Let that sink in and give them time. Also the caves have much too big openings.
That is what I am going to do I am just going to wait and do my weekly maintance and I will feed them frozen foods. And I will put the coconuts more in the sand so the openings get smaller. I am just curious why they are already yellow
Depends on the country you live in. In some you get mostly wild caughts, in some more tankbred.
i live in the Netherlands. The owner of the fish shop imports a lot of fish from South America. Almost all of the fish in this fish shop are wildcaught. But I will never know for sure whether they are wildcaught.

I do really appreciate your help. Thanks.

Is there someone who can confirm whether this is the A. Gephyra?
 
Last edited:

MacZ

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,050
Location
Germany
This tank is already running since 4 years en the scape has changed overtime. The tank is already done I just need to remove one stone it doe not change the scape.
Hard to tell from pictures how long a tank is running. You saying the wood still has to sink made me think the tank is relatively (!) new.
I think you’re right that is the reason I did not already buy more corydoras I am first going to see how it will go.
Good decision. And also keep the puffers under close observation.
You’re right but I am not trying to breed them. What I want is natural behavior and that is not throwing them in a tank which is only made for breeding. I have I pretty big tank for apistogramma as only bottem fish except for the 3 Cory’s. My goal is not to breed them but breeding is part of natural behavior. I don’t want a lot of fry or something I just want to see the parental behavior. I know that real natural behavior you only see in the wild but at home we can do the best we can. Because my tank is big enough I think that I have the space for some breeding. But breeding just is not my main focus.
I get you want to see the behaviour, the problem I see, though is: You have too few fry predators and more than one female. Those are two factors that will probably end you up with too many fry. If you had a decently sized school of tetras (anything between the size of a neon tetra and an emperor tetra) and one female less: Easy going, no problem.
I bred (mostly rift lake) cichlids for a decade with my dad, and I advise and help out some hobby breeders around me, so I know how quickly you can get overrun by fry, expecially from species with such good brood care as most cichlids. I myself have made the decision, after a longer hiatus from fishkeeping, that I would avoid breeding, so my display tank has a single male Dicrossus at the moment. The chances I get females is low.

So I'd probably move the puffers to another tank and add a good sized (10-15) group of tetras instead. That will keep the fry down. Just make sure the females don't spawn every two weeks due to fry predation. They tend to burn out quickly if that happens.

That is what I am going to do I am just going to wait and do my weekly maintance and I will feed them frozen foods. And I will put the coconuts more in the sand so the openings get smaller. I am just curious why they are already yellow
Also add more leaf litter. It's not unusual for the females to be already yellow shortly after purchase. Healthy ones should already be in spawning mood and the fact you have two also supports it by competition. It's not like they only become yellow after spawning. They are already before.

i live in the Netherlands. The owner of the fish shop imports a lot of fish from South America. Almost all of the fish in this fish shop are wildcaught. But I will never know for sure whether they are wildcaught.
Then the likelihood they are also wild caught is high. Just the exact location will stay a mystery, but that would be likely a decisive information for the species ID.
 

Bramgroet

Member
Messages
182
So I'd probably move the puffers to another tank and add a good sized (10-15) group of tetras instead. That will keep the fry down. Just make sure the females don't spawn every two weeks due to fry predation. They tend to burn out quickly if that happens.
In the first post I said that I am going to get a schooling fish. Like a tetra but I am probably going to get the pyrrhulina spilota someone from a different Netherlands forum reccomended them to me. I have seen them in my fish shop Utaka and they are really beautiful. Also the one that recommended me these fish has send some videos from his and they have a lot of behavior. But maybe I will just go for a Hyphessobrycon sp. that is the cheaper option.
Also add more leaf litter.
I am working on that already I have ordered some leaves.
And also keep the puffers under close observation.
I will!
Hard to tell from pictures how long a tank is running.
I understand.

If I get too much fry I will set up an extra small tank and then sell them when they get bigger. But I have heared that by some people the eggs only hatch in really soft acid water so I will just see how it goes when they have laid some eggs.
 

Apistoguy52

Active Member
Messages
295
Pretty fish! Wild caught agassizii type fish have always been a rough go for me….too many species that look too much alike. If I remember correctly, they gephyra I’ve kept displayed they typical agassizii lateral spot, and an additional lateral spot toward the anterior ( I think I can kind of make this out on one of the females). I’d lean slightly toward a nets/netz male, gephyra female, and unknown female. Fingers crossed
 

Bramgroet

Member
Messages
182
Well the females Agassizii or look alikes are almost impossible to ID atleast for me. Also I have read that the A. Gephyra males have a red zoom on the dorsal fin.
 

MacZ

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,050
Location
Germany
n the first post I said that I am going to get a schooling fish. Like a tetra but I am probably going to get the pyrrhulina spilota someone from a different Netherlands forum reccomended them to me. I have seen them in my fish shop Utaka and they are really beautiful.
If you wanted to breed: A good choice, as would be Nannostomus. These surface oriented species are no or very poor fry predators. I'm pretty sure that's the reason people recommended them. Hyphessobrycon sp. will do for sure.

If I get too much fry I will set up an extra small tank and then sell them when they get bigger. But I have heared that by some people the eggs only hatch in really soft acid water so I will just see how it goes when they have laid some eggs.
You are in the upper ranges of water parameters that might warrant viable spawns. You will indeed have to see.
 

Bramgroet

Member
Messages
182
After reading some more I think I might have the apistogramma cf. Agassizii netz from alenquer probably. This would be pretty nice because the water perameters for this fish are easier to achieve. Also these are almost always wildcaught or f1. And these are one of the more beautiful Agassizii.
 

Apistoguy52

Active Member
Messages
295
After reading some more I think I might have the apistogramma cf. Agassizii netz from alenquer probably. This would be pretty nice because the water perameters for this fish are easier to achieve. Also these are almost always wildcaught or f1. And these are one of the more beautiful Agassizii.
Could be….could also be nets/netz from half a dozen other places. If one of the females is actually a gephyra, it would probably be more reasonable to guess that the male is a nets/netz type from the Rio Negro
 

Apistoguy52

Active Member
Messages
295
 

Bramgroet

Member
Messages
182
Here I read that the female has a glowing line underneath the lateral band. Mine female does have this.
 

Apistoguy52

Active Member
Messages
295
I’m hopeful Mike Wise or Frank H will chime in and offer some additional/more accurate insight into species. “Catch location” can be tricky without speaking to the person who collected them…
 

Mike Wise

Moderator
Staff member
5 Year Member
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11,230
Location
Denver, Colorado, U.S.A.
This is a population belonging to A. cf. agassizii (Netz). A. gephyra males show more extensive lacy pattern in the caudal - and less net-like pattern on the flanks. Where it comes from? I can't say. Populations occur from the Rio Negro almost to the mouth of the Amazon, north of the main channel.
 

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