Hello! And stocking advice, please :)

[Tiff]

Hello! I have been receiving some excellent advice from this forum and am thus far with my plans for a November set-up:

Tank (note no lid, 60x35x35cm):

EHEIM clearTank 73

Gestalten Sie gerne faszinierende Unterwasser-Landschaften? Dann ist EHEIM clearTank genau das richtige Aquarium für Sie. Denn statt aus üblichem Floatglas bestehen die Scheiben aus hochwertigem reinstem Weißglas. Das ist noch klarer und bietet

eheim.com

Showfish will be:
1 x male Nannacara anomala

Other inhabitants will be:
10+ x Rasbora espei
1 x dwarf pleco OR a corydoras “army” - I’m open to suggestions here.

Water is (without adjustments, but I have had success in the past with almond leaves lowering the ph):
Ph 7.2
Carbonate harness between 15 and 20d
Total hardness >21
0 nitrites and 0-10mg/L nitrates
I don’t really understand the total/carbonate hardness, but I’m great with nitrites and nitrates!

Substrate
I’d like black sand over Tropica “soil” substrate, but can only find fine black gravel online. I’m open to suggestions here!

There will be plenty of plants, including duckweed and frogbit to dapple the light.

The lights, filter, heater, air pump and decor are yet to be decided.

I am accepting that the rasbora and nannacara are from different continents - I’m hoping they won’t mind!

What do people think?

 

[MacZ]

1 x dwarf pleco OR a corydoras “army” - I’m open to suggestions here.

Scratch that. In a tank that size the cichlid will claim all of the floor space.

If you thought of Otocinclus: They starve in a freshly setup tank, because there is no sustainable Aufwuchs. A tank that size, properly seasoned (running 1 year+) would only sustain 2-3 while they require to be kept in much higher numbers than that.
If you thought of actual plecos: Nocturnal catfish and diurnal cichlids is a combination often ending badly for the cichlids. Also becauss the catfish have much more mass. A pleco roaming through the tank at night frightening the cichlid cn be compared to a car driving through your bedroom. It's not an aggression thing, the plecos just don't care.

I’d like black sand over Tropica “soil” substrate, but can only find fine black gravel online. I’m open to suggestions here!

Scratch the soil it is not needed at all. Just sand with leaf litter is perfect for any dwarf cichlids and looks most natural. There is also no truely black sand available.

Water is (without adjustments, but I have had success in the past with almond leaves lowering the ph):
Ph 7.2
Carbonate harness between 15 and 20d
Total hardness >21
0 nitrites and 0-10mg/L nitrates
I don’t really understand the total/carbonate hardness, but I’m great with nitrites and nitrates!

total hardness = calcium/magnesium hardness + carbonate hardness.

pH, nitrites and nitrates are variables and will dial in once the tank biology gets going properly, especially the nitrogen cycle. Leaf litter and even peat will not change your pH if the carbonates are indeed that high.

 

[Tiff]

Thank you! Very happy to not use the "soil"!

Yes, you read by mind with the Oto thoughts! I won't get any bottom dwellers, unless you can think of some that would work...

1) Could you recommend some sand? I don't want to accidentally get too fine, not fine enough, too sharp, etc.

2) Is there anything else I could put in along with my Nannacara anomala and the rasbora? I love shrimp, but I imagine the NA would make a meal of them...

I love this bit of the planning stages

 

[MacZ]

Yes, you read by mind with the Oto thoughts! I won't get any bottom dwellers, unless you can think of some that would work...

In a tank that size... no, stick to the cichlid.

1) Could you recommend some sand? I don't want to accidentally get too fine, not fine enough, too sharp, etc.

There is no "too fine". I usually don't recommend brands, but if you can get your hands on JBL Sansibar orange, you'Re in the right territory. Anything similar will also do.

2) Is there anything else I could put in along with my Nannacara anomala and the rasbora? I love shrimp, but I imagine the NA would make a meal of them...

How about some Nannostomus?
And yes, shrimp end up expensive live food.

 

[Tiff]

In a tank that size... no, stick to the cichlid.


There is no "too fine". I usually don't recommend brands, but if you can get your hands on JBL Sansibar orange, you'Re in the right territory. Anything similar will also do.


How about some Nannostomus?
And yes, shrimp end up expensive live food.

Just looked up Nannostomus - love them. Would my tank cope with 1 x NA, 10 x rasbora espei and 10 x nannostomus?

 

[MacZ]

It might be a bit much, depending on the species.

Ich you choose N. eques (my absolute favourite), get 10-15 of those and forget the rasboras. If you get N. marginatus 10 each is possible.

 

[Tiff]

I’ll forget the rasboras.
Loving the Beckfordi at the moment!

 

[Tiff]

Oooh, the marginatus are gorgeous.

I need something that will contrast or complement (colour-wise) with the NA - I’m definitely going to forget the rasboras and go with the Nannostomus.

I am leaning towards the Beckfordi… but the eques and marginatus both look lovely, too. Lovely, curious, confident personalities from what I’m reading, too.

And the same continent as NA, too!

 

[MacZ]

And the same continent as NA, too!

Same habitat sometimes.

 

[Tiff]

I've got my stock! A lovely single male Nannacara anomala, and 10 Nannostomus beckfordi or marginatus. I'll hatch my own brine shrimp for them as well as offering flakes/pellets. Maybe the odd treat of a tiny morsel of crushed prawn, and a day of fasting. I'll get the sand, almond leaves, mopani wood, some rocks, and loads of plants.

Thank you!

 

[MacZ]

Post pictures when it's done!

 

[Tiff]

Knew it. I'm now planning to go slightly bigger with the tank - Fluval Visi-White 60 (78l / 20g). Footprint is 60x35x35cm.

Does this change anything? Could a pair of NAs work if I didn't have the pencil fish? I know you don't like a pair in a community, but on any planet could this still work (I've fallen in love with the Nannostomus beckfordi)

* My interest in keeping a pair is bolstered by my past successes with blue acara, but that was in a huge tank. The male used to bump against me angrily when I cleaned the tank, protecting his eggs. before then going on to eat them, obviously *

 

[MacZ]

Does this change anything? Could a pair of NAs work if I didn't have the pencil fish? I know you don't like a pair in a community, but on any planet could this still work (I've fallen in love with the Nannostomus beckfordi)

See, a pair plus some kind of schooling fish is no problam in terms of bioload. It is also no problem in terms of space. It only becomes a problem if the cichlids start brooding. Luckily the femals of N. anomala are not even close to the terror-wasps Apistogramma females become. But in this case consider also: Pencilfish are no fry predators so you might end up with more fry than the tank (and you) can handle. I would give it a try but I urge you not to try anything to help the fry grow up. No extra feeding or sth. just let nature run its course.

Also maybe ask the store clerk if they would be willing to take fry from you in bulk in case the fish are mire successful than you were prepared for.

 

[Yoannikko]

Hello,

Seeing as N. anomala are bigger than my A. borellii, and seeing what happened with my personal pair, I would say, no. On one hand, you would think that with just two individuals (if the tank is well scaped), it could work because they would have the tank to themselves. But on the other hand, all of the female's aggression would be directed towards the male.

Now, I have no experience with Nanacaras as a whole, so take this with a grain of salt. But, again looking at what happened with my Apistos in a very similarly sized tank (60x30x30 cm), which are said to be pretty chill for Apistos, I would suggest that not having "dither" fish is worse because the female will concentrate on the male only, which will greatly stress him out.
Plus, what are you going to do with the fry once they grow ? Do you have (an)other tank(s) for them ? And/or one for the male if things get too intense ?

If you must have a pair of Nanacaras, I would still highly suggest getting dither fish as well. Everyone will be stressed, but at least the agression should be somewhat diffused. And if you do get a pair, and you don't have a plan for the fry, I think Tetras would be better suited, as they definitely will eat the fry.

 

[anewbie]

Luckily the femals of N. anomala are not even close to the terror-wasps Apistogramma females become.

I'm going to disagree here of course it depends which species of apistogramma but in general i found n. anomala female both larger and more aggressive when brooding. Her territory at least in my sample was not huge and some species of apistogramma will demand a larger territory but but again there is a large variance in both individual fish behavior and species. Also the n. anomala are a larger fish at least the ones i had and as i noted earlier in this thread i think a 40B is a better aquarium than a 20 long. Personally if you want a pair i would go with either borelli or so. Also remember there is not much of a gap from top to bottom in this aquarium so the dithers will not be able to get out of the territory by going up.

 

[Tiff]

See, a pair plus some kind of schooling fish is no problam in terms of bioload. It is also no problem in terms of space. It only becomes a problem if the cichlids start brooding. Luckily the femals of N. anomala are not even close to the terror-wasps Apistogramma females become. But in this case consider also: Pencilfish are no fry predators so you might end up with more fry than the tank (and you) can handle. I would give it a try but I urge you not to try anything to help the fry grow up. No extra feeding or sth. just let nature run its course.

Also maybe ask the store clerk if they would be willing to take fry from you in bulk in case the fish are mire successful than you were prepared for.

That sounds perfect; my local fish shop is always happy to receive goods! I’d be happy to let nature run its course, too. Obviously I’ll change my mind when I see the babies…

 

[MacZ]

Seeing as N. anomala are bigger than my A. borellii

Erm... pretty much the same size. Actually the A. borellii females are smaller than the Nannacara females, the males are roughly the same with the Apistogramma being slightly bigger.

If you must have a pair of Nanacaras, I would still highly suggest getting dither fish as well.

That's what the Nannostomus are there for.

I'm going to disagree here of course it depends which species of apistogramma but in general i found n. anomala female both larger and more aggressive when brooding. Her territory at least in my sample was not huge and some species of apistogramma will demand a larger territory but but again there is a large variance in both individual fish behavior and species. Also the n. anomala are a larger fish at least the ones i had and as i noted earlier in this thread i think a 40B is a better aquarium than a 20 long. Personally if you want a pair i would go with either borelli or so. Also remember there is not much of a gap from top to bottom in this aquarium so the dithers will not be able to get out of the territory by going up.

Mileage obviously varies, but you bring forward some other fair points.

All in all: Let's stick to the recommendation of a single male, eh?

 

[Tiff]

I'm going to disagree here of course it depends which species of apistogramma but in general i found n. anomala female both larger and more aggressive when brooding. Her territory at least in my sample was not huge and some species of apistogramma will demand a larger territory but but again there is a large variance in both individual fish behavior and species. Also the n. anomala are a larger fish at least the ones i had and as i noted earlier in this thread i think a 40B is a better aquarium than a 20 long. Personally if you want a pair i would go with either borelli or so. Also remember there is not much of a gap from top to bottom in this aquarium so the dithers will not be able to get out of the territory by going up.

I didn’t think about the height - I might forego the pencil fish. Or not have a pair of n. anomala. Or not make my mind up…

 

[Mike Wise]

I have kept many different color forms of N. anomala over the decades (blue, green, black and once red). In all of them the females, when protecting eggs and fry, were "hell on fins". Anything that got near her brood, including fingers, were viciously attacked. Can a 60 l/15 gal tank be used? Yes. Just note that anything in it is "fair game" for a brooding female - including males 2+ times her size.

 

[anewbie]

I have kept many different color forms of N. anomala over the decades (blue, green, black and once red). In all of them the females, when protecting eggs and fry, were "hell on fins". Anything that got near her brood, including fingers, were viciously attacked. Can a 60 l/15 gal tank be used? Yes. Just note that anything in it is "fair game" for a brooding female - including males 2+ times her size.

I guess these colour variation come from the wild and won't be found in domestic. Never seen a red or black one and the green one was f1s from a hobbyist in my area most stores carry domestic blue and as far as i can tell they are not super healthy (too much inbreeding?)