gill flukes

[aspen]

gill flukes are a real pita for dicus owners. many exp'ed keepers and breeders agree that total eradication, even in a closed system, is impossible. it has been reported that flukes even enter the bloodstream of the fish, and live and breed there. gill damage can be extensive if left unchecked. i would think that this is common for apistos as well, due to the fact that they have commonly been kept with discus, and have likely intermingled. this is for the tank bred fish the worst, as wilds have species that are more easily eradicated apparently.

there are reported to be thousands of species of 'flukes'. some are also reported to be very resistant to meds (like potassium permanganate and formalin based products). in fact improper use of these meds has likely caused them to have developed a high resistance to these meds.

i have heard that using formalin and pp does not kill the fluke. they will curl up and encapsulate on the bottom of the tank, and release their egg, which is impossible to kill with meds. this egg will hatch and a larva will float around the tank till it lands on a gill, and continues it's life cycle.

one way i've heard of, to clean up your fish, is to do a 4 hour formalin treatment, 37% for 4 hours at 1 ml per 10 gallon, then move the fish to a clean tank, and disinfect the first tank. this is repeated for 7 treatments, every 3- 5 days.

has anyone eradicated flukes in their hatchery, and have you proved this with a microscope, and how exactly did you do it?

rick

 

[tjudy]

Flukes are a very interesting creature... beyond being a pain in the butt... err.. gills. Here comes the biology teacher input...

A fluke is a member of the invertebrate phylum Platyhelminthes, which also contains planarians and tapeworms. Flukes are specifically members of the class Trematoda, and (according to the book I am looking at) all of the member species are parasitic.

What makes flukes so difficult to get rid of? Most likely it is the use of a 'two host' system. Most flukes use one organism as an intermediate host as a feeding and growing site, and then morph into a new form that seeks out and infects a primary host where the reproductive cycle takes place.

I do not know the specifics of the gill fluke, but an intermediate host is likely. Very commonly it is a snail... Usually only a very specific type of snail. Interestingly, flukes do not reproduce sexually in the intermediate host, but they may reproduce assexually. This means that is is possible that a source of new flukes in a system might be an intermediate host, where a medication is not designed to reach them.

As in the case of most of the really nasty stuff out in the world... they are actually kind of cool too...

 

[aspen]

gyrodactyls (sp) need no intermediate host, they are born with an egg inside them. i keep a tank with discus only in a species tank, a glass box with a filter and a heater, no snails, or anything else i know of. (well maybe some microscopic things) and they reproduce and bug my fish, and every now and then i do the separate tank treatment. but i haven't bitten the bullet yet, and done the 7 treatment course of treatment, followed with clean fishless cycled media.

one discus breeder has reported doing a 21 day treatment of praziquantal, and still had them in his stock, after examining a fry under the microscope.

another question i have is, if i have a planted tank, and remove all of the fish, how long would i have to wait till the tank is 'fluke free'? (no snails there either- for sure.) what other species will they feed from, when a fish host isn't available? can they eat the stuff inside the filter for sustainance?

i think i need to do some research here. flukes are a pita for juvies and adults, but they kill fry like crazy. you see a fry take off, spinning, and do a death roll, then die on the bottom of the tank. this is a fluke death. i would love to call my home 'fluke free' before starting to breed my discus.

rick

 

[Randall]

Flukes

Dear Rick and Ted,

Thank you for your informative discussion regarding flukes. Flukes are a concern to many of us; and as you've discussed, can be very difficult to eliminate. I hope that you guys will research the subjuct more thoroughly and post your findings. I, for one, would be very interested to learn more.

Thank you!

Randall Kohn

 

[Richgrenfell]

I always used potassium permaganate for flukes. Once treated I observed no further problems. I didn't use a microscope, so i guess they could have still been present, but if they were, my fish were no longer being affected. The young discus fish grew rapidly and had voracious appetites. I bred discus for a few years, and one 4 hour treatment always did the trick for me. Since I did a 50% water change everyday, I allowed the filter media to recharge itself, and didn't worry very much about it.
I also took precautions by not using the same equipment in any other tank.


Rich

 

[aspen]

hi rich, i remember you from the discus forums.

potassium permnganate is a good med, and i've used it a few times on my fish. in fact i used it on 20 day old discus fry. but i must say, that it didn't do the trick, it simply relieved them for a while. do you remember the doses that you used?

one thing i know is, that there are any diferent species lumped into the category of 'gill flukes'. (thousands, but i'm not sure how many will live on a discus or even in fresh water.) this may be the reason that different people report different exp's with these little buggers.

rick

 

[Richgrenfell]

Hi aspen,
I remember you as well, to tell you the truth, i don't remember what the dose was. i was using it under the guidance of Teddy (i'm sure you remember good old Teddy!). There is a product on the market that i used once called flukes control. it is 100% potasium permaganate. I just used as directed and that did the trick! I have never had any further problems after using PP. I have been out of discus for a while and have not used it since.

Rich