friendliness of hobbyists

[blueblue]

i have been on the web for some years, and i am a member of
nearly all reputable forums with apistos, such as here, aquaticquotient.com
in singapire, aquariumfarm.com in Hong Kong, aqugrass.com in
Hong Kong, and aqua.andy.tw in Taiwan. People and moderators
from these forums are all friendly and I enjoy staying there. Some of
them even invited me to be their moderators (though i declined all).

However, for the pleco forums, strange enough, people
there are very cold to me... i really feel puzzled (i also keep a lot
of interesting plecos!!!). Are there any similar experiences from members
here? Are apisto hobbyists more friendly than pleco's?? haha

 

[tjudy]

IME/IMO the higher the cost of the fish, the greater the number of not-so-nice people the fish attract. Dwarf cichlids are a relatively small niche hobby compared to the wide spread interest in plecos. The more people involved the greater the chance of running into not-so-nice people. When there are not-so-nice people on the forums, I think that everyone is more reserves in what they write for fear of getting critisized. If you think pleco people are opinionated and 'not-so-nice', go visit the discus forums. Or go visit a PHOTAGRAPHY forum and post a message about what kind of camera and lens you use... I gurantee, no matter what kind of camera you have, there will be three negative opinions for every positive opinion.

 

[aquaticclarity]

I’ve had a similar experience to yours on a specialized pleco site. People seemed very closed to other ideas and even seemed to spend more time in nonfish related topics. It was a very “hostile†environment to deal with. I gave up on the group well over a year ago after just a few months visiting and posting on the site. I think Ted is right on in his theory for the reasons it’s this way.

Jeff

 

[eklikewhoa]

I have had similar experience with the "Specialized Pleco" forums....

 

[blueblue]

IME/IMO the higher the cost of the fish, the greater the number of not-so-nice people the fish attract. Dwarf cichlids are a relatively small niche hobby compared to the wide spread interest in plecos. The more people involved the greater the chance of running into not-so-nice people. When there are not-so-nice people on the forums, I think that everyone is more reserves in what they write for fear of getting critisized. If you think pleco people are opinionated and 'not-so-nice', go visit the discus forums. Or go visit a PHOTAGRAPHY forum and post a message about what kind of camera and lens you use... I gurantee, no matter what kind of camera you have, there will be three negative opinions for every positive opinion.

Thanks Ted for the comments, it's interesting to see how people behave and react in this kind of cyberspace...

 

[blueblue]

I’ve had a similar experience to yours on a specialized pleco site. People seemed very closed to other ideas and even seemed to spend more time in nonfish related topics. It was a very “hostile†environment to deal with. I gave up on the group well over a year ago after just a few months visiting and posting on the site. I think Ted is right on in his theory for the reasons it’s this way.

Jeff

Exactly, Jeff... more interestingly, the knowledge and experience levels of most people in many of those forums are actually low...

 

[blueblue]

I have had similar experience with the "Specialized Pleco" forums....

i see, is it zxxxxxxxx.com? ^.^

 

[aquaticclarity]

yep!

Jeff

 

[Graham]

I don't know if it's the $$$ as much as the personalities that are attracted to certain types of fish (or animals in general). While generalizing only goes so far, the personalities in Apisto enthusiasts vs. Pirhana or Oscar enthusiasts is often quite different. Having done some time working a LFS some years ago, I could usually predict which area of the store a new customer would head to just by the way they dressed and carried themself (and whether or not they smelled like cigarettes ). There are people that break the mold all over, but talking with avid fans of certain niches of the hobby....you start to see patterns after a while.

I have to say that rude pleco enthusiasts does kind of throw me, though. :redface:

 

[tjudy]

I think that there is an economic factor. Zebra plecos... hey, that's what we are really talking about... are sold for a lot of money. The species is not proving to be that difficult to breed, however, so one has to ask why the prices are staying so high. I think that there are many good zebra pleco breeders who would not willingly give away all their secrets. The incentive is to keep the price high. It is all supply and demand. Eventually the supply will climb higher than demand and we will be able to buy zebra plecos at a more reasonable $50 - $75 per fish.

I have a reputation for 'giving fish away' by selling lower than what fish are generally selling for on other websites. I hope that my B. macrostoma get it right someday soon. I would LOVE to sell them for less $100 a pair and watch all the importers/exporters have fits.

 

[RiC]

Blueblue, they are probably jealous of you because of all of those L46 you have! :wink:

I agree, same experience for me; I also agree with Ted that some are much worse, especially Discus forums

 

[peterK]

I'm not very interested in plecos, but for a short time i have visited some forums - exactly two I think the best ones. And on neither of them I have been ‘attacked’, or something. My experiences are good, but when I‘ve read some topics on those forums I found that they like to argue:redface:

Piotr>>>

 

[blueblue]

agree and probably it's a natural thing that comes from the preference of the group of hobbyists.

I don't know if it's the $$$ as much as the personalities that are attracted to certain types of fish (or animals in general). While generalizing only goes so far, the personalities in Apisto enthusiasts vs. Pirhana or Oscar enthusiasts is often quite different. Having done some time working a LFS some years ago, I could usually predict which area of the store a new customer would head to just by the way they dressed and carried themself (and whether or not they smelled like cigarettes ). There are people that break the mold all over, but talking with avid fans of certain niches of the hobby....you start to see patterns after a while.

I have to say that rude pleco enthusiasts does kind of throw me, though. :redface:

 

[blueblue]

Thanks much Ted. Hmm, i have a few inputs

1. In Hong Kong, apistos are not really cheaper than L46... or the price
is not that far away. Here, discus is now very very cheap though (P.S: I was an hobbyist in discus for over ten years, especially the wild caught...).
If you think about the species such as A. eliza, A. diplo, A. mendezi, I. adoketa, the german bred and wildcaught ones are all expensive internationally.

2. For breeding apistos and L46, i think i am quite qualified to say something as i have bred both. Comparing these two, L46 is more difficult to breed and it takes a verrrrrrrrrrrrrry long time in order to get some young kids (and get them to grow). The number of fry is also small (the maximum is 20 something, usually around 10-15). In addition, the export of wildcaught should be prohibited. Given these conditions, i think L46 should be expensive BUT i agree that the price was once too high (an 8cm wildcaught was selling at about US$300 - US$360 last spring) while the price seemed to have adjusted recently...

3. Your way of spreading the fish in the hobby at a lower price
is well-respected

I think that there is an economic factor. Zebra plecos... hey, that's what we are really talking about... are sold for a lot of money. The species is not proving to be that difficult to breed, however, so one has to ask why the prices are staying so high. I think that there are many good zebra pleco breeders who would not willingly give away all their secrets. The incentive is to keep the price high. It is all supply and demand. Eventually the supply will climb higher than demand and we will be able to buy zebra plecos at a more reasonable $50 - $75 per fish.

I have a reputation for 'giving fish away' by selling lower than what fish are generally selling for on other websites. I hope that my B. macrostoma get it right someday soon. I would LOVE to sell them for less $100 a pair and watch all the importers/exporters have fits.

 

[blueblue]

Blueblue, they are probably jealous of you because of all of those L46 you have! :wink:

I agree, same experience for me; I also agree with Ted that some are much worse, especially Discus forums

hahaa... maybe my plecos are too handsome compared to theirs (but does it mean my apistos do not look good here?! hehee

 

[blueblue]

I'm not very interested in plecos, but for a short time i have visited some forums - exactly two I think the best ones. And on neither of them I have been ‘attacked’, or something. My experiences are good, but when I‘ve read some topics on those forums I found that they like to argue:redface:

Piotr>>>

Thank Piotr. Yes, you are right that they love to argue for...in many cases, nothing... so, they argue for the purpose of arguing...

 

[Refael Hdr.]

Don't forget that many Apisto hobbyists like to keep some Plecos too
At least in our region, the breeders who keep Apistos usually have affection to special Loricariidaes and Corys too :biggrin: ...

 

[blueblue]

Don't forget that many Apisto hobbyists like to keep some Plecos too
At least in our region, the breeders who keep Apistos usually have affection to special Loricariidaes and Corys too :biggrin: ...

hi Refael. I think pleco hobbyists who also keep apistos are
also more friendly, just like you (e.g., you replied my threads
there).

 

[Apistomaster]

It is never safe to generalize about people or specialty group which are, after all, made up of people. Only addressings tropicalfish forums, here.
Still, there is some truth about the different tone found in different specialty groups. I have a wide range of tropicalfish interests so I have joined many of the major forums.

I am first and foremost a discus person. I began breeding wild fish first then TR back in 1969. Particularly the wild types but I keep, breed, sell and enjoy domestic strains of discus. I have been concentrating my efforts in recent years on Symphysodon discus Heckel.
I go back many years with discus and began breeding wild fish before I ever raised any domestics. The first domestic discus I bred were F1's I raised myself. I also had a fish store back then. The discus people were snobbish then and they still are, if I were to generalize.

The fancy pleco and rare Corydoras folks can be pretty snobbish, too, if I were to generalize.

Killiefish folks have generally been a more polite bunch, if I were to generalize.

Betta folks can be insufferable, too, if I were to generalize.

It is dangerous to generalize. Prices of fish kept and snobbish attitudes do have a correlation. I just enjoy the folks that I find in any of the fish forums that are friendly giving people. Not afraid to share their "trade secrets."
There really are no secrets. It really is a matter of how much observation, trial and error, and even a little luck but above all the amount of time you can put into your fish. Some of us are fortunate to have a lot of time and enough money to pursue our hobby(s) than others. When one has outside of hobby demands of family and work our involvement with tropical fish is not going be as high as it otherwise might be.

I'm also a wild Betta enthusiast and although my interest is mainly the little bubblenesting species, I wish you success with Betta macrostoma. Definitely an expesive fish and on the red list, I believe. Captive breeding may be this species last chance.
The wild Bettas share quite a few similarities with the dwarf cichlids albeit a different mode(s) of reproduction. One of the friendliest groups I have joined is the International Anabantoid Association(IAA).

I have been a fly fisherman all my life and it is another avocation that has a well earned reputation for snobbery.

Just one more thing. As the result of a recent study, a new book has been published about why good people do bad things. An interesting point described is the phenomenon of when people are hooded be it literally or electronically, they feel much free to act out the negative sides of their natures than they do face to face.
Larry Waybright