Fish stand - for dwarfs

[beleg]

I have been bothering people with my posts last few days but i got so many to ask and to learn from the experienced forumers.

I have plans to make a fish rack since, my space is limited and i cant afford a fish room. My plan is to make a stand with 100cm length and 50 cm depth. the height will be enough to make 4 rows of tanks. The top 2 rows will be dedicated to smaller breeding tanks and the bottom 2 rows for grow out tanks. Quite similar to the ones in www.apisto.org website. The rack will be made of iron coated with black cardboard so it looks nice.

For the top 2 rows i plan to put 23X50X30(h)= ~34l tanks, 4 for each row.
Fow the bottom 2 rows i plan to put 46X50X30(h) =~70l tanks, 2 for each row.

Each row will have around 25 cm space on top for maintenance.

However i have some serious concerns with going on with the project.

1. Are the tank sizes ok? I plan on getting A.agassizi, A.cacatuoides, A.baenschi , similar apistos and perhaps P.taenini.
   If you were making similar rack how would you play with the sizes of the tanks/rack?. The racks length cannot change (max 1m) but anything else is flexible within reasonable limits.
   
2. I want to make each tank separate from others and filter via air driven sponge filters. However i have 2 problems with this method.
   • First is the heating. Winter months are quite cold and this method would require a separate heater for each tank which would be very expensive to operate.
     
   • Second is the constant air pump and bubbles noise since the tank rack will be in a daily used room.
   
   To overcome this i have thought of a method like in www.apisto.org an overflow and sump like system which runs via a strong pump but then that will require me to connect all tanks via plumbings to each other. This is a negative thing for the species that may demand different water conditions and a disease in one tank might infect others easily.

Since some of you guys have dealt with similar problems what do you guys suggest?

I appreciate all thoughts and ideas.

Regards,
Tolga

 

[Mike Wise]

Your 34 l (~9 US Gal.) tanks are adequate for you, an experienced apisto hobbyist, but are the minimum. I would only use them for breeding pairs, not trios. I would also suggest having some smaller tanks as holding tanks for males when not needed in the breeding tank. This will cause less aggression between partners when the female has fry. If you are making these tanks, I suggest a depth of 20 cm. Anything more is wasted space. The space will be better used above the tanks for easy maintenance.

I prefer separate tanks to the connected systems. Such systems allow disease to pass between fish more easily, and - as you say - you can have each tank with its ideal water. If you use an air pump to power your sponge filters, use quality air stones. The stones make very fine bubble without the noise. There are several new air pumps that can handle your number of tanks that are very quiet. As for heating, I see only 2 choices: 1. a heater in each tank or 2. having the room on a separate heating system. This latter can be either a themostat/zone for only the one room or a portable room heater. I have a fish room (~ 3.5 x 3.5 m) that has insulated walls and a separate thermostat zone. I set it at about 26ºC/80ºF. It is a joy to work in on a cold winter day!

 

[beleg]

Mike thanks for your valuable inputs.

My plan since beginning is to keep pairs. Aggression has been a concern for me too, so i was planning to keep some of the tanks empty for the males that are bullied. After the female has reared fry enough the tank will be washed cleaned and the pair reintroduced again. So maybe i will keep around 4-5 pairs of fish.Thus i have only 4 grow out tanks. I dont know if my way of thinking is logical.

As you see i will put the rack in one of the bedrooms we have and its not possible to insulate the room so its separate heaters. During summer its very hot here , we don't need heaters but coolers, while winter might bite into my purse.

Btw if i drop to 20 cm that will leave me only 23l. So do you suggest i reduce the nr of tanks for top 2 rows to 3 (30X50X20(h))? If i can convince my wife (which is an expensive thing) i might make the depth 60 cm instead of 50.

 

[Mike Wise]

My plan since beginning is to keep pairs. Aggression has been a concern for me too, so i was planning to keep some of the tanks empty for the males that are bullied. After the female has reared fry enough the tank will be washed cleaned and the pair reintroduced again. So maybe i will keep around 4-5 pairs of fish.Thus i have only 4 grow out tanks. I dont know if my way of thinking is logical.

This is the system that I use, except that I don't particularly clean the tanks afterwards. They should always be well maintained.

As you see i will put the rack in one of the bedrooms we have and its not possible to insulate the room so its separate heaters. During summer its very hot here , we don't need heaters but coolers, while winter might bite into my purse.

You can reduce some of the heat lost from the tanks by covering the backs and sides with foam insulation boards.

Btw if i drop to 20 cm that will leave me only 23l. So do you suggest i reduce the nr of tanks for top 2 rows to 3 (30X50X20(h))? If i can convince my wife (which is an expensive thing) i might make the depth 60 cm instead of 50.

Surface area of the tank's bottom is much more important than the volume of a tank for apistos. If properly maintained, you should have no problems with 23 l tanks. Trust me. You will not want to properly clean a tank if it is hard to get into. This leads to the infamous "Black Tank" in which nothing seems to survive for long. If your wife will allow the extra 10 cm, I would always add more.

 

[beleg]

Mike thanks. You have cleared some of the concerns in my mind.

The coating of the racks with foam is a bright idea it will not only save in money but also reduce the volume.I will seriously work on this once i start..

I was wondering if Denver is in quake zone? If yes have you taken any precautions against it?

 

[Mike Wise]

Denver is not in an active quake zone. The last quakes 1960s were man-made. The government was injecting toxic chemicals in wells drilled in deep rock layers. The liquids lubricated burried fault planes - shake, shake.

 

[beleg]

Well Istanbul is.. We expect a quake with magnitude of 7,1-7,7 here within the 20 years. I wonder if mounting the rack to walls via a drill and stabilizing the tanks in the rack is a good or bad idea.

I had a 80 l tank in the 99 quake and it had spilled out half of its contents within the 40 sec. duration. It also moved half of its length out of the shelf i put it.. maybe 10 sec more I'd have a mess to deal with.. At that moment aq. is the last thing you think about though.

 

[Mike Wise]

Perhaps someone in quake prone areas will help you. You can mount the stand to the wall with braces, but the tanks will still move. It might be a good idea to put some kind of a block on the front of the tank stand to prevent them from moving.

 

[beleg]

Yes, but i have read reports on krib.com of such braces pulling away a whole section of wall in the California quake. Since each tank in my setup is smaller maybe they will behave independently than a huge tank with similar mass but the total mass might be too big. I will ask my construction engineer friend about this as well. I don't want the whole rack and the wall collapsing onto someone..

 

[beleg]

Ok back to where i left this topic 4 months ago

Finally (hopefully) tomorrow my fish rack is coming. I got 4 tanks (50x25x26(h)) for now for pairs. I will order grow out tanks as soon as the rack is here.

While discussing with my wife, she told me that she definitely doesn't want air operated sponge filters.. She doesn't want bubbling noise.

I have asked thoughts of 2 fellow aquarists from this forum (blueblue and awth), and they have provided valuable thoughts. My choices seem limited to;

1. External mini cannisters like CY-20-Resun or EDEN 501
2. Hang on back filters like Aquaclear-Hagen or Liberty-Eheim
3. Weak Internal power filters like Aquaball-Eheim
4. Powerhead used in Hamburger Matten filter or on top of a sponge filter.

My thoughts on each with preference order is below.

IMO external mini cannisters are best choice with their spray bars and sponge inlets however 2-3 times more expensive than hang on back.

Hang on back filters worry me because the return water may cause lots of turbulence even at lower power but they are quite safe against fry with a sponge installed in filter inlet.

Weak internals like Aquaball might pose risk to fry or maybe underpowered?

Small powerhead on top of sponge filter .. will it work?

Small powerhead to make a matte filter.. The sight is not very nice. Probable complaints from wife

I'd like input and advice on what i could do and how your would proceed if you were me. I think at the end i will decide between option 1 & 2..

What are your suggestions?

 

[ed seeley]

I've got Aquaball filters on two tanks with Apistogramma eremnopyge breeding in one and Pelvicachromis suboccelatus 'Matadi' in the other. Never found babies in there (not that you probably would) and always had good sized broods. The kribs babies would even pick things off the filter. The one in the Apisto tank is throttled right back, but only to slow the flow coming out of the spray bar I've fitted to it.

I've got a cheap HOB on my nano tank and I hate it. Thing I'm going to swap it for an old Fluval external filter I've got lying around.

 

[Mike Wise]

If these were my only choices, I would use the smallest possible powerhead on a sponge filter. Apistos generally do not appreciate heavy water movement. Sponge filters do not trap fry like power filters, and the sponge is exposed to the fry. The fry will use the sponge as a source of food.

 

[beleg]

Ok. The rack is very far from complete but i will put pics of it as it develops here.

For now i only have 4 25X50X26(h) tanks for 2 pairs of double red A. Agassizi and 1 pair of A. cf agassizi "Pastel" i also have a single female in the 4th tank whose male partner jumped off the tank

General outlook of a tank

A. cf agassizi "Pastel" pair.

 

[ed seeley]

Looking good Beleg. Very nice and clean and I like the look of the Pastels. Never even heard of those before!
Interested to see you're not using sand, or anything else, substrate. I always thought their digging and excavating around their cave was a big part of pre-spawning behaviour!

 

[beleg]

Hi ed.. Cleanliness is a must.. Its a part of the deal with the lady . I bought the Pastels from Germany, from a friend in German forum. They are also referred to as Rio Tapiche(?). I wanted to use substrate , at least partially but will skip it for a while since i am not very sure the silica sand i have is as inert as it is advertised.

I put a 60 lt tank on top of the rack and filter the water with peat to reduce pH for a week and then use that water to change the tanks water. as i have time and money i will invest in more breeding and grow out tanks.

 

[Mike Wise]

... I like the look of the Pastels. Never even heard of those before!

Discussion of the form is found in Koslowski 2002 and the DATZ book.

 

[beleg]

I have yet another question. I have placed my old 60 l tank on the top of my rack to age tap water and peat filter later on when i have the budget and time to install a filter on it. Currently the water just sits in it. Every week i siphon out water form this tank easily into the breeding tanks.

This morning i was surprised to see that the tank is infested with nearly a hundred mosquito larvae. Free live food. I caught some and fed my fish. However i am not sure anymore if the water if the water can be used in the breeding tanks anymore. Those buggers like dirty water afaik. Should i throw away the water? There is also brown debris on the bottom of the tank..

Thanks for your inputs.

 

[beleg]

I had to chance to work on my rack this weekend.

I made acrylic tops for the tanks.
Finished the electric wirings and plugs.
Installed lighting on grow out tanks, the grow out tanks are connected to each other via 2 u tubes i made from PVC pipes.

close up of electric and lighting (t4 tubes)

My next task will be to make covers for the fronts of the tank from dark black acrylic.


These fry started free swimming on Saturday

This is the second female guarding her nest. She has like 50 wigglers inside and this is her second batch, first batch is in grow out tank now.

Not as rare or as beautiful as some forumers' fish but i hope you still enjoy.

 

[beleg]

Meanwhile i could use some advice on making a tank to keep males in to prevent unwanted breeding or aggression.

Since i have only limited space i plan to divide one of my tanks in the top row to 3 parts to keep the males in it. It would give 16X25 cm for each male. The parts will be separated by black acrylic so the fish wont be able to see each other.

Will that area be enough for adult males? I appreciate any input.


If i go according to the plan that would eventually allow me to have 6 pairs of fish.. Not as much as i want but its all i got for now...