Endler's Livebearers as Dithers?

[slimbolen99]

Trying to think of something new and more prolific than pencilfish to act as dithers in my 75 gallon apistogramma tanks...has anyone tried Poecilia wingei (Endler's Livebearers)? Were you successful? Any problems? Suggestions?

Brian

 

[slimbolen99]

Here's what I've got going on: I have six 75 gallon tanks (48"x18" footprint) devoted to single species each of Apistogramma. They breed like crazy but are eating fry, I think, because I have no dithers. I did have neon tetras, but took them out when I redid my tank setups and haven't put anything in their place. I plan on adding "guppy grass" and floating riccia to the tanks.

I have six location variants of wild type N Class Endlers, and I think they could setup a colony in an apistogramma tank...obviously, I don't want the Apistos to eat all the endler fry, and I don't want the Endlers to eat all the Apisto fry.

Is it feasible?

 

[Ttw]

When I tried Endlers as dithers, they did not tolerate the soft acid water well. Now I use neons or rasbora heteromorpha without problems.

 

[slimbolen99]

That's odd, because I've been keeping my endlers in the exact water (low pH and medium hardness) as my apistos! I guess it depends on the source and what they're used to, and how well they acclimate.

 

[Rod]

Endlers natural habitat is hard alkaline water....some brackish
I find they are prone to shimmies if not kept in water with high conductivity
But I'm talking about real Endlers.....not Endlers guppy hybrids often sold as Endlers


I like Clown (rocket) Killies as dithers.....they tend to hang around the surface and are very prolific in soft acid water

 

[Rod]

Endlers natural habitat is hard alkaline water....some brackish
I find they are prone to shimmies if not kept in water with high conductivity
But I'm talking about real Endlers.....not Endlers guppy hybrids often sold as Endlers


I like Clown (rocket) Killies as dithers.....they tend to hang around the surface and are very prolific in soft acid water

 

[slimbolen99]

Clown killies are great; but much more expensive!

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,
If you want a "cheap" dither Black Neon Tetras work and are easy to breed. I think that some have used Poecilia caucana. Here: <http://www.apistogramma.com/forum/i...o-biotope-need-locality-help.8478/#post-47539>.

cheers Darrel

 

[slimbolen99]

Did some experiments, and Ttw was right -- the endlers did not do as well, long term, in the lower pH water. It was worth a shot. Sometimes you just have to learn first hand. Thanks for the input.

 

[Angelman]

How about white clouds. I know they are a feeder fish but are very hearty in all types of water...

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

How about white clouds. I know they are a feeder fish but are very hearty in all types of water...

I don't think they'll be ideal, they aren't happy in warm water, although you might be able to keep them with Apistogramma like A. borelli that come from cooler water. They are also happier in harder water than most Apistogramma like, and they are from a different continent.

cheers Darrel

 

[slimbolen99]

Yeah, I think I'm just going to stick with plain ole pencilfish; which, in fact, aren't really plain. And, found out, if you buy them by the box (1,000+), they're really cheap...per fish.

 

[Angelman]

White Cloud Mountain minnow

Although the nominal temperature range for the species in the wild is 18–26 °C (64–79 °F), it can survive water temperatures down to 5°C (41°F).
[4] This makes it an ideal fish for keeping in an unheated aquarium in cold climates. In fact, White Clouds are more active and healthier when kept at temperatures lower than those at which most tropical tanks are kept. Water hardness (dH) should be from 5 to 19, and pH levels should range between 6.0 and 8.0.

 

[regani]

I haven't tried too many different species as dithers, but I like the pencil fish. not necessarily because of their looks but because they constantly breed in my tanks, the eggs providing the apistos with a nice protein supplement....

 

[JasonC]

Hi all,
If you want a "cheap" dither Black Neon Tetras work and are easy to breed.

If you don't mind me asking, what do you do to breed these? I agree, they are really fun dithers.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

If you don't mind me asking, what do you do to breed these? I agree, they are really fun dithers.

Just watch them in the tank, the females are noticeably bigger and fatter than the males. You should see them displaying to one another fairly continually when conditioned. It is the wrong time of the year now but Mosquito larvae are best for conditioning. I've used Grindal worms, Blood-worms and Daphnia to condition, but Mosquito larvae are best.

Set up a small breeding tank with either lots of spawning mops (to almost cover the bottom) or a really thick carpet of moss. If you can set the tank up a while before it helps with fry survival. You need soft, clean water (I didn't measure the pH, but it was about 60 ppm TDS) and 27- 28oC temp, I added some Alder cones (and I now add dead leaves to all my tanks), so the water would have been tannin stained. Put the conditioned pair of fish in the spawning tank just before lights out, and put a towel over the tank, just leaving a small gap to let the light in. They should spawn about dawn the next morning, the eggs are clear and aren't very sticky. You need to take the pair out fairly promptly in the morning (they'll eat the eggs), and if you use Java moss make sure there aren't any Planaria in it (they will also eat the eggs).

Fry are quite big (but still pretty small), so you need a food smaller than BBS (like Paramecium) for them for the first few days. Banana worms might do, but I didn't have a culture of these when I bred them. Just the moss and filter sponge squeezings should make sure enough survive to keep you in replacement dithers.

cheers Darrel