Cac with receding mouth??

[drudnick]

My male cacatuoide seems to be missing about 1/4 of the side of his mouth. I saw a couple pinhead sized looking clear bubbles on his lower lip earlier this week. Now I saw him today and it looks as though the left corner of his mouth is missing. Now his bottom lip looked to be alittle crooked, so I dont know if this is becoming exagerrated as he grows, is a fight related issue, or something bacterial or something like that.

Both females have been yellow for about a week, yet they dont stay in cave so do not think there are eggs. He has been hiding in the back of tank, but will come out to eat, and is skiddish if I look in back and he sees me. So aside from what I can see he doesnt show any signs of being sick. He is about 2 inches and biggest fish in the tank other than an african butterfly who stays at top of tank.

anyne have any thoughts about what could be wrong with his mouth?


Dave

 

[drudnick]

Actually the more I look, it seems like there is some kinda of growth on his mouth, which makes it look like one side of his mouth is missing. Its nothing huge, but definitely something there. Outside looks like little bumps on ese of lip, while just inside the mouth it almost looks like a tiny piece of algae is growing out of his lip.

 

[fishgeek]

photos?

mouth fungus which actually bacterial, though your suggestion of algae makes me think green and columnaris ids generally non pigmented
there are some fungi that can have pigmentation

andrew

 

[drudnick]

I will try and get a photo. Its hard for me to get close enough, as he is quite skiddish...

Its hard to see without having face pressed up against glass

 

[drudnick]

This is best pic I could get. Dont know if you can see how the lip is alittle rough, rather than smooth

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f124/chillininri/Picture032.jpg

 

[fishgeek]

i dont see anything in those photo's
slight angulation of the lips can happen when fighting , certainly my male cac looks like his lower lip is not closing normally

they do have teeth s some internal roughness maybe visible

i find the hiding away an early indicator of illness so i would think there is something going on
watch closely appetite, toileting all the other things that may help get a better picture
keep changing water frequently with good quality , will reduce any toxins/pollutants heavy metals etc that maybe about

andrew

 

[drudnick]

Ok thanks

I will be watching, I wasnt sure if he was hiding due to some female aggression, or sickness. He still raises his fins and whips his tail at other fish that come near him, like Ram. Just seemed odd, because he is King of tank, and hes behind rocks and stuff

 

[aquaticclarity]

It's hard to really see anything wrong with the mouth in the picture; cacatuoides have such large uniquely shaped mouths as it is. And countless years of line breeding have taken an additional toll the mouth shape! I've seen many double/triple red cacatuoides with twisted and crooked mouths/lips. As fishgeek stated fighting can also result in a damaged mouth. What concerns me more is the change in habit you stated. Did you recently, with-in the last month, add any new tank mates with the cacatuoides? It could explain a fighting injury and then possibly an infection on the damaged tissue. Also, in some cases new fish can introduce new pathogens to a system where the original fish in the tank aren't able to cope with the new disease. The new fish often don't show any signs of infection due to their past exposure to the problem. The new fish may never have show any sizes of sickness and just been a carrier of the "bug", kind of like passing a cold with out ever showing the symptoms.

Before jumping to any disease conclusions test the water quality. Make sure the ammonia and nitrite are at 0. Nitrate should be as low as possible, over 100ppm is an issue, under 40ppm is the upper range of comfortable. For double/triple red cacatuoides pH value isn’t a big concern, anywhere between 6.5 and 7.5 should be good, just avoid the extremes and any sudden large shifts in value.

Find out what your water quality looks like BEFORE starting any medication treatment. In a lot of cases improved water quality will lead to improved fish health and behavior without drugs. If the water tests out all right then it might be time to look at medications.

One last thing to consider is the age of the fish. Apistos are not a long-lived fish. 2-3 years is an average life span in my experience. Keeping the fish at warmer temperatures, 80F and above, will decrease their lives, and cooler temps., 76F –74F, will prolong their existence in many cases.

Jeff

 

[drudnick]

Everytime i test my water in that tank the readings are....

Nitrate 40 ppm
Nitrite 0
GH 75
KH (which actually has changed recently) is showing 300 (dont know how to lower)
PH 6.3

Temp is 78 and the fish is 7.5 months old

 

[aquaticclarity]

What's the ammonia level?

Jeff

 

[drudnick]

Ill have to double check, but I believe it is .25 as of last check.

 

[aquaticclarity]

Hopefully the ammonia is at 0. An established tank should not have any ammonia unless something has changed...overcleaned filter, new filter, increase in fish, etc. It would be worth a double check.

Jeff

 

[drudnick]

After alot of worrying and fingers crossed, my male came out of seclusion tonight. He ate, and then swam out across tank to one of yellow females, she did her sideways tilting, and he assumed his usual position back in middle of tank. Still gonna watch him for a few days. But I am feeling much better.

 

[fishgeek]

that is pleasing