Blue Rams and fry

[brimar66]

I have a pair of rams that spawned and raised their fry which are about 3 weeks old today they just laid another clutch off eggs will parents raise both spawns or should I seperate parents and eggs from 1 st batch of fry or will they raise them together. Brian

 

[Mike Wise]

I'd remove the fry from the tank if possible. It is rare that Rams raise fry at all. It's unlikely that they will raise both broods together. It's much more likely that they will try to drive the older fry out of their territory (the aquarium), as occurs in the wild.

 

[brimar66]

thanks for reply Mike up this morning and found daddy eating smaller fry removed mom, dad and eggs to another tank by themselves because it was easier to catch them,Brian

 

[Bunnie1978]

I have a young pair that are laying their second batch right now. The first fungused. I don't expect much now either... I've got the tank a little crowded with apistos angels and rams! But it's a great sign! I can't wait to watch babies grow up. Good luck with yours!

 

[Mike Wise]

I think it's time to think about a breeding tank, Bunny. Rams rarely raise their own fry, but if there's any chance at all, I highly doubt that it will be successful in a community tank.

 

[Bunnie1978]

So should I be removing the rocks the eggs are on and putting them in a tank all by itself?

 

[Mike Wise]

It really depends on what you want. If you want a large number of fry to survive. Then treat the eggs as angelfish breeders do. Keep a pair of Rams in a small tank and remove the eggs/spawning substrate to a smaller tank and grow them away from the parents. I know one breeder who uses clam/oyster shells as the substrate. The Rams spawn on the concave side and the breed just removes the shell. The eggs stay submerged during transfer. He adds an air stone near the eggs to simulate the parents' fanning. Once the eggs hatch, he removes the shell. If you want to try to let the parents raise the fry, the I would suggest using a 30Long or 55 gallon tank. Add 2 or 3 previously bonded pairs and let them breed in a communal system - like they do in the wild. Competition tends to tighten the bonding process in a breeding pair.

 

[Raul-7]

It really depends on what you want. If you want a large number of fry to survive. Then treat the eggs as angelfish breeders do. Keep a pair of Rams in a small tank and remove the eggs/spawning substrate to a smaller tank and grow them away from the parents. I know one breeder who uses clam/oyster shells as the substrate. The Rams spawn on the concave side and the breed just removes the shell. The eggs stay submerged during transfer. He adds an air stone near the eggs to simulate the parents' fanning. Once the eggs hatch, he removes the shell. If you want to try to let the parents raise the fry, the I would suggest using a 30Long or 55 gallon tank. Add 2 or 3 previously bonded pairs and let them breed in a communal system - like they do in the wild. Competition tends to tighten the bonding process in a breeding pair.

Are the wild-form bad parents as well or is it only because we've inbred them so much that they lost their parental instincts?

 

[Mike Wise]

I believe that most of the problem is caused by the way Rams are commercially reproduced, so wild Rams should be better parents. On the other hand, Rams tend to more prone to eating their eggs/fry in the aquarium than many other dwarf cichlids. It appears that in the wild Rams tend to breed in communities of breeding pairs, each pair with a small breeding territory. This tends to keep the parents busy protecting their spawns. Most aquarium breeding tends to be with individual pairs. This leads to less need to protect the eggs/fry, boredom and fights between the parents. This often leads to the eating of the eggs or fry. That's my biased opinion anyway.

 

[Bunnie1978]

So, Mike - other than raising the babies seperate from parents, would you say the next best option would be two pairs in a larger tank, like a 20g perhaps?

 

[Mike Wise]

I think that the minimum would be 3 pair in a 30L. I think that 2 pair is too few and a 20 is too small. Then let them try about 5 times to get it right. If not successful, then pull the eggs or try other pairs.

 

[Bunnie1978]

Did you mean 30g??

So 3 pairs in a 30g tank... I think I can pull that off easily. Adding more rams to the fish store shopping list!!!

 

[BradP]

Did you mean 30g??

I believe "30L" was intended to indicate 30 (gallon) Long.

The idea is that for more territorial species, like our Rams in this case, the dimensions of the bottom of the tank is a more important consideration than the overall total of gallons, so that (at 30g) a long variety of tank would be more appropriate than a standard or tall of equal gallons. And of course you can achieve the same result with a standard or tall of greater overall gallons too, say 50 or so; it's the footprint of the tank that determines how much or how little territory would be available for pairs to stake out and defend.

 

[Bunnie1978]

Brad - Too late! Hehe. I got the other fish yesterday already. I have them all together (overcrowded 29) but I'll be moving out all the Apistos and Hypancistrus as I get more of my fish room running. I think that the Cacatuoides will go with my Blue Angels in a 29 (so 5 Juv. Apistos and 4 Juv. Angels) until they are ready to pair. I have several little caves in that tank. Then I will move the Tri. and Panuro into their own tanks, IF I can figure out which are which.

 

[Mike Wise]

You're right Brad, I meant a 30 gallon long (36x12x16"/90x30x40cm). The footprint of a tank is much more than volume. My dream tanks, if I could afford them, would be 30 Breeders (36x18x12"/90x45x30cm). They can handle more fish.