barebottom tanks

[electric eel]

hi everyone!i have tried 3 different kinds of sand(tahitian moon sand,3m color quarz and quartz pool filter sand) they all seem to affect my water chemistry in ways i'm not liking.i'm getting tired of setting up tanks and not being able to keep the ph and hardness where i want it(my barebottom tanks are staying right where i want them)i just set up a tank with quartz pool filter sand(supposedly inert) and no matter what i do the ph goes up to 7.5.i have spawned rams in barebottom tanks in the past(although i must say i don't think they particularly liked it) and just had my dicrosus spawn in a barebottom tank.have any of you had any luck spawning apistos in barebottom setups.what about barlowi?the 3m sand(well washed) made my tds go off the scale of my meter.way higher then my tap water.seems like the tahitian moon sand was buffering the water as well.i can keep it between 6 and 7 pretty easily but not lower.i put a pair of pelvicachromis sp. aff. subocellatus in the last setup and i'd really like to get the ph below 7.5 anyway.
thanks craig oliver

 

[apistobob]

I do not like bare bottom tanks as I usually think the fish are not as comfortable. The only exception is when I set them up with a layer of 2-3" of oak leaves. This makes an excellent and complex environment but at times you never see fish because they are interacting in the areas between the leaves. However, I have had a number of successful spawnings in these types of setups.

A couple of other things I do is to put just enough sand or gravel in the tank to provide a covering of the bottom. this seems to make the tank more "comfortable" for the fish.

I also use flower pot trays (those things they sell that a flower pot sits in) that I fill with an inch of so of substrate and add a cave to. I place one or two of these into a tank an d it becomes the spawning site without filling the tank with substrate.

Water chemistry is not a specialty of mine so I will leave comments about the sand and gravel impacts to others.

Also, I know that there are folks who love bare bottom and I hope they will offer you their comments.

Bob

 

[ste12000]

Interesting thread!!

All my Apistogramma spawning tanks (13 right now) contain a thin layer of childrens playpit sand, this is a inert substrate which after lots of experimentation has never effected water perimeters, i dont know whats available at your side of the world but the stuff for children is fine to use, steer away from expensive sands from the LFS and also any building type sands..I think having substrate is best to make the Apistogramma happy, they love to dig out the cave and then block up the entrance.

They can and will spawn in bare tanks, ive had wild A.baenschi, panduro and hongsloi all spawn for me in a small bare quarantine tanks containing just a single cave for cover!! they then proceeded to raise the fry with no problems at all!!

 

[oldschool]

As ste12000 said I also use children’s playground sand available from my local hard ware store. I also have used store bought sands and even though they say they will not alter water chemistry they always do. Play ground sand has been the choice for me. A simple test is to use Muriatic acid, just pour some on the substrate you intend to use and if it foams up it has substances that will alter water chemistry.

As far as bare bottom tanks are concerned I do not prefer them but I find as long as you paint the bottom black and give lots of cover i.e. java moss floating plants, caves etc most species will breed in it. I currently have a group of wild T.candidi and they are doing just fine in a bare bottom tank painted black on the bottom. I have some java moss on the bottom and a cover of floating plants. They are swimming out in the open and seem to feel right at home. I will let you know if they breed in this setup. I can tell you this for raising fry I use bare bottom tanks that are painted black on the bottom and I have no problems.

To lower your pH you need to lower your KH. I like to use peat moss but there are many methods. RO systems, DI etc. If your tap water is not too bad you could probably get by with using a peat filter to lower your KH enough to get your pH down to your desired range below pH 7.5
Do a google search on peat filters and you should get allot of great ideas.

 

[Gillie]

I use tahitian moon in all but a few tanks the others have play sand in them and have no trouble maintaining a low ph. I have a group of T. Candidi in with tahitian moon and B. Opercularis with the playsand, the ph in both tanks is a consistant 6.0. I only use peat, oak leaves, ro and indian almond leaves. You have to be really careful not to get even a small amount of harder water in the tank. I have noticed that this can skew your tests. I use ro for everything from rinsing bbs to cleaning my nets.
I don't like to use bare bottom tanks for some reason I kept getting really crappy survival rates.

 

[electric eel]

i think you must be right gillie because i reset up 3 -20 gal tanks sunday.i reused the pool filter sand that was in them.this time i rinsed everything with ro water(sand,filters,caves)the ph and tds in 2 tanks is staying right at 6ph and 13ppm hardness.the other tank is staying at 18ppm hardness and 5.75ph.i used rainwater that has aged for at least 4months.i'm curious to see if the new driftwood will make the ph go lower.the water is getting a little darker.i hope the water isn't too soft.i didn't add anything but some discus trace minerals.my dicrosus filamentosa spawned pretty quickly in the 5.75ph tank.nothing yet on the other 2 but this is the first time my honsloi have swam together and were doing a little dance.they were in a coconut shell together but didn't spawn(i don't think)