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Apistos Cross Breeding?

ari

New Member
I read somewhere online that Apistos can and will cross breed. Does anyone have any info on this? Are the offspring sexually viable or sterile?

Doe anyone have pics?
 

Bilbo

Member
5 Year Member
Apistogramma is a large genus containing hundreds of species in many species groups. Some possibly cross can but most cannot.

We have a few apisto's that are probably crosses like the Apistogramma Sp. "Steel Blue" and I think there was another (possibly bitaeniata / agassizii) cross a few years ago called Apistogramma sp. "Orangeflossen" but neither of these are known to be overly attractive or desirable.

So the main question is why do you want to cross them? Each one is unique and beautiful in its own right.
 

Mike Wise

Moderator
Staff member
5 Year Member
Bilbo is right. Some other examples include crosses that Dr. Uwe Römer attempted when studying the relationships of some of the nijsseni-group species. If you can find a copy of his description of A. baenschi, it has photos of these crosses. They are some really ugly, deformed fish. A similar problem occurred with the original imports of A. sp. Tefé, which were crossed with A. agassizii from the Rio Tefé without knowing. These fish showed deformed scale rows and fins, produced small numbers of weak fry that were infertile. Not all crosses are as bad as these, however. Many of the domestically produced fish presently sold as "A. sp. Algodon" are inadvertent crosses between closely related species belonging to the cruzi/Pebas subcomplexes of the eunotus-complex. In the 80s, specimens of A. macmasteri were believed to have been crossed with specimens of other macmasteri-complex species to produce the spectacularly colorful "A. viejita" sold in the hobby. There is a good chance that the present commercially bred "A. viejita" have some of the same hybrid blood lines. The same is true for the colorful strains of A. hongsloi. They appear to be crosses between several different species/forms of the hongsloi-complex. Many of the colorful strains of A. agassizii are actually crosses between multiple species/forms belonging to the A. agassizii superspecies. So, you see, there is nothing really wrong with crossing species for specific purposes. What is wrong is selling such hybrids as a specific species. If you don't want accidental crosses, then only keep apistos with different body shapes together. These are not likely to cross breed.
 
If you don't want accidental crosses, then only keep apistos with different body shapes together. These are not likely to cross breed.
Is it possible for apistos of different body shapes to breed with each other? For examples, those from different species groups?
I'm just curious to know if there have been cases of unexpected hybrids.
 

ari

New Member
I'm not looking to make my Agassaizi and Cockatoos cross breed. They're just in the same tank... that's all :)
 

Mike Wise

Moderator
Staff member
5 Year Member
Species from different species-group are very unlikely to cross. Any fry that hatch are not likely to survive to adulthood and more than likely to be sterile. I wouldn't worry about crossing the 2 species. A bigger problem would be separating juveniles of the 2 species, if both were together in the same aquarium.
 
i tried to. the males cannot tell the deference, but the female can.
Interesting. That's what I found too when I kept a male Jurua (Cruzeiro) and a couple of female cacatuoides in the same tank.

The Jurua tried hard to court the cacatuoides into a flower pot but none of them would respond positively. Instead, 2 of the cacatuoides females paired up with each other and laid eggs on the side glass of the tank!! Even more interesting that the eggs didn't last long because the angry male Jurua devoured them quickly in about 5 minutes. I watched the whole drama and was quite entertained. LOL
 

lexi

Member
Bilbo is right. Some other examples include crosses that Dr. Uwe Römer attempted when studying the relationships of some of the nijsseni-group species. If you can find a copy of his description of A. baenschi, it has photos of these crosses. They are some really ugly, deformed fish. A similar problem occurred with the original imports of A. sp. Tefé, which were crossed with A. agassizii from the Rio Tefé without knowing. These fish showed deformed scale rows and fins, produced small numbers of weak fry that were infertile. Not all crosses are as bad as these, however. Many of the domestically produced fish presently sold as "A. sp. Algodon" are inadvertent crosses between closely related species belonging to the cruzi/Pebas subcomplexes of the eunotus-complex. In the 80s, specimens of A. macmasteri were believed to have been crossed with specimens of other macmasteri-complex species to produce the spectacularly colorful "A. viejita" sold in the hobby. There is a good chance that the present commercially bred "A. viejita" have some of the same hybrid blood lines. The same is true for the colorful strains of A. hongsloi. They appear to be crosses between several different species/forms of the hongsloi-complex. Many of the colorful strains of A. agassizii are actually crosses between multiple species/forms belonging to the A. agassizii superspecies. So, you see, there is nothing really wrong with crossing species for specific purposes. What is wrong is selling such hybrids as a specific species. If you don't want accidental crosses, then only keep apistos with different body shapes together. These are not likely to cross breed.
Do you have any links or info sources for figuring out which species belong to which group/complex? Thanks!
 

lexi

Member
Ok, so based on that link, cacatuoides and macmasteri are in their own separate complexes. So they wouldnt interbreed then? Am I understanding that correctly? With the cross breeding issue out of the way, would a female of one species and a male of another species tolerate each other in a 20 high, 29g or 33 long community tank?
 
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