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Apistogramma problem with eyes

hongyj

Member
Messages
38
A coupe days ago, my apistogramma cactuiodes pair spawn for the first time and she spawned underneath a leaf and everyday she kept on eating more eggs and at first I assumed she was eating the unfertilized eggs but when shining a flashlight inside and watching her, she ate some fertile eggs so I made the decision to pull the eggs but afterwards she wasn't too happy and spent so much time looking for the eggs. She started wiggling underneath leaves and I think the direct contact with the sand and her eyes rubbed out the skin on her eyes. This morning when I woke up I saw white tissue coming off of her eyes but her eyes themselves seem fine it's just I think the skin over her eyes is peeling. What should I do? Will this heal properly? I feel really bad because it put a lot of stress on her and she got hurt in the process
 

MacZ

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,187
Location
Germany
Lesson learned I hope.

Keep the waterchanges coming (50%/48h). Humic substances can be pushed up a bit too. Otherwise hands off!

And maybe additionally: They're A. cacatuoides. They are superfluous, you don't have to make every spawn count. Quite the opposite.

Edit: Just to make sure there's nothing else, post a picture of the fish.
 

Ben Rhau

Apisto Club
Messages
588
Location
San Francisco
everyday she kept on eating more eggs and at first I assumed she was eating the unfertilized eggs but when shining a flashlight inside and watching her, she ate some fertile eggs
It could be that the stress of shining a light on her caused her to eat the eggs. Spawning is energetically expensive, so eating the eggs is a good way to ensure she absorbs the nutrition back until she can spawn in a safer context.

so I made the decision to pull the eggs
Raising apistogramma from eggs isn't easy. Much easier to let it happen naturally, since they are such prolific breeders.

afterwards she wasn't too happy and spent so much time looking for the eggs
I would be careful not to interpret a fish's body language similarly to a human's. It's quite different, and also quite different across species.

She started wiggling underneath leaves and I think the direct contact with the sand and her eyes rubbed out the skin on her eyes.
If she's rubbing her side against the sand, that's an indication she's having a skin or gill irritation. That could be a sign of parasites or poor water quality. Would need more info to diagnose.
 

hongyj

Member
Messages
38
Lesson learned I hope.

Keep the waterchanges coming (50%/48h). Humic substances can be pushed up a bit too. Otherwise hands off!

And maybe additionally: They're A. cacatuoides. They are superfluous, you don't have to make every spawn count. Quite the opposite.

Edit: Just to make sure there's nothing else, post a picture of the fish.
Thank you for your reply. The pH is around 6 right now and I'm not sure what you mean by humic substances. I always see you writing about them but am not sure what you mean. Could you clarify? And also I don't think they spawn without triggers like waterchanges and it takes me a good 2 weeks before I can get them conditioned again
 

hongyj

Member
Messages
38
It could be that the stress of shining a light on her caused her to eat the eggs. Spawning is energetically expensive, so eating the eggs is a good way to ensure she absorbs the nutrition back until she can spawn in a safer context.
Yea but breeders have been known to shine a flashlight in there without problems and she didn't eat the eggs when i shined my flashlight in. I made the light red by putting clear tape with red marker on it because I know fish can't see red light. I think it's because it's her first spawn and I have another male and female in the tank.
I would be careful not to interpret a fish's body language similarly to a human's. It's quite different, and also quite different across species.
Yes, but it was apparent that she was looking for the eggs because she was going under every leaf and she spawned under a leaf.
If she's rubbing her side against the sand, that's an indication she's having a skin or gill irritation. That could be a sign of parasites or poor water quality. Would need more info to diagnose.
She's not rubbing her side against the sand but rather . I've seen ich/white spot before and gill irritation as I've kept other fish when I was less experienced and I can distinguish it pretty easily but she was just trying to get underneath the leaves and happened to rub against the sand in desperation for looking for her eggs. If there were parasites and poor water quality, it would have spread to the other fish but it didn't. And today I came back from school and she is no longer doing that. But still, I will keep an eye out on my fish.
 

MacZ

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,187
Location
Germany
Thank you for your reply. The pH is around 6 right now and I'm not sure what you mean by humic substances. I always see you writing about them but am not sure what you mean. Could you clarify? And also I don't think they spawn without triggers like waterchanges and it takes me a good 2 weeks before I can get them conditioned again
Humic substances = "tannins". Tannins are just part of it, so the term is a misnomer. That's why I use the term humic substances.
The pH isn't relevant in this situation.
 

hongyj

Member
Messages
38
Humic substances = "tannins". Tannins are just part of it, so the term is a misnomer. That's why I use the term humic substances.
The pH isn't relevant in this situation.
ohhhhh lol. I have a lot of leaf litter in the tank so the pH is pretty low. I removed a lot of the tannin in the water because it made it so that the glass of the tank essentially a mirror meaning my fish would constantly flare and hit the glass and the male started to have red markings on his "nose" area so I decided to remove the tannins via water changes
 

MacZ

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,187
Location
Germany
I removed a lot of the tannin in the water because it made it so that the glass of the tank essentially a mirror meaning my fish would constantly flare and hit the glass and the male started to have red markings on his "nose" area so I decided to remove the tannins via water changes
I have never seen or heard that. Not happening here. but I also cover sides and back of my tanks with black cardboard and the lightiung is very dim. Almost no reflections.
 

Eddy. E.

Member
Messages
74
Location
Germany

May be a help. ;-)
 

MacZ

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,187
Location
Germany
The term, "botanicals" is being used in the hobby lately to refer to leaves, alder cones, and peat.
Peat is not included and many make the distinction between leaf litter and other botanicals. While I agree that peat does not belong in the category, leaves, seed pods/cones, twigs, bark and the like are very much botanicals. Interestingly it's taken analogously from the terminology of spirit distillation, especially gin.
 

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