Apistogramma pandorini

[M0oN]

Picked up 3 pairs of these guys, won't arrive until two weeks from now, have a few questions about them.

Will they be able to defend their eggs from cory cats?

How many pairs could I keep in a 29 gallon heavily planted tank?

My water parameters are pH 6.8, gH 6, temperature 78 degree's, is that pretty much ideal for these guys?

Any other information about em' would be great, there's not much on the net from what I've found.

Thanks,
Jason

 

[_BaDgUy_]

Try looking for Apistogramma panduro, it's the same thing.

 

[M0oN]

Thanks for the info, although it doesn't show much more information then what I found using the other species name.

Does anyone know anything about this fish at all?

 

[Randall]

Apistogramma panduro

Dear Moon,

Romer described Apistogramma panduro in 1997. If you pick up a copy of his book, there's a slew of information about it (23 pages worth).

Koslowski places A. panduro as a member of the Apistogramma nijsenni-species-group. Husbandry and breeding are as per A. nijsenni: very soft, acidic water at 78-degrees F should do it. A. panduro is a more aggressive species, so more than one pair or trio in a 29-gallon tank might be asking for trouble.

As cave spawners, the eggs and larvae will be shielded from your cories.

Good luck!

Randall Kohn

 

[M0oN]

Thanks a bunch Randall

I'll be getting 2 males and 6 females at younger ages to start with, all wild strains and raising them in a heavily planted tank with rock caves and peices of driftwood that contain holes under the rooted areas.

Using 6 praecox rainbow's as target fish to help lower aggression, a breeder I talked to who has been working with them for 7-9 years and said that he originally thought they would do worse at high stocking levels but after making trips to their ecosystems he noticed that they compile into small areas where males will have a harem of females.

Is there any truth to this claim? I'm assuming it largely depends on if all the females are in breeding colors or not.

Thanks again, I'll be looking into that book.

Jason

 

[Randall]

Apistogramma panduro

Dear Jason,

Thanks for sharing your name.

Methinks your friend is right. Apistogramma species are harem spawners where a dominant male presides over a territory that contains several females. Please know, however, that a dominant male's territory may be the same or larger than the dimensions of a 29-gallon tank. So, when adding a second male to the mix, someone may end up very dead. In essence, by adding a second male, one will acsend the social hierarchy and the other will suffer undue stress and may not make it.

Romer writes that with A. panduro females, conflicts can also occur. The setup that you propose, however, should minimize this.

Dr. Uwe Romer's Cichlid Atlas 1 can be purchased through Dave Soares at [email protected]. In addition to Apistogramma, many other South American dwarf cichlid genera are thoroughly discussed. For phenominal information concerning western African cichlids, please check this out: http://www.apistogramma.com/cms/content/view/500/.

Good luck!

Randall Kohn

 

[Randall]

Correction to A. panduro

Dear Jason and to the forum,

After hearing from Neil, yours truly stands corrected.

Neil indicates that not all Apistogramma species are harem spawners; some are monogamous, while A. sp. "Smaragd/Emerald" is a reverse harem spawner in that females will mate with more than one male.

Apistogramma panduro is a harem spawner. As for Jason's 29-gallon tank, please remember that A. panduro is a more aggessive species. From Neil's experience with them, the space contraints of this sized tank does not lend itself to successful harem spawning. Jason, for this reason, perhaps a single pair in your tank might be best.

Thank you.

Randall Kohn

 

[M0oN]

Thank you Neil and Randall, I think I will still attempt a harem and see what comes out of the mix, if anything I have two 10 gallons that I can move other fish into until I find them a good home.

 

[Neil]

M0oN,

Individual personalities and general species behavior can change the possible results of how well groups of fish work in any given aquarium. Any nijsseni-complex fish has the potential to make life miserable for all other residents in a 29 g. Panduro is no exception. I have seen them actively search for anyone else in the tank to give a licking to. And I am not just talking about the male. Female can be worse.
Give it a try. Everything may be peachy in your tank, but you will definitely need to keep an eye on things. I have kept more Panduros in smaller quarters than that, but it was for holding and no-one got into too much trouble. 6 in a 29 may be just about enough space to give 2 females and 1 male a real bad attitude toward the other 3 fish. I wouldn't be suprised if you will need the use of your spare 10gs. Let us know what happens.

Neil

 

[M0oN]

M0oN,

Individual personalities and general species behavior can change the possible results of how well groups of fish work in any given aquarium. Any nijsseni-complex fish has the potential to make life miserable for all other residents in a 29 g. Panduro is no exception. I have seen them actively search for anyone else in the tank to give a licking to. And I am not just talking about the male. Female can be worse.
Give it a try. Everything may be peachy in your tank, but you will definitely need to keep an eye on things. I have kept more Panduros in smaller quarters than that, but it was for holding and no-one got into too much trouble. 6 in a 29 may be just about enough space to give 2 females and 1 male a real bad attitude toward the other 3 fish. I wouldn't be suprised if you will need the use of your spare 10gs. Let us know what happens.

Neil

Neil,
Thanks a lot for your comments, I'm going to go with 1 male and 4 females, I talked my importer into selecting the most robust and healthy male out of the 70 or so fish he receives and holding onto him for a month before shipment, so I reckon I'll get a pretty pristine specimin.

They're generally only violent to intruders on their territories and their own species, right? In other words I shouldn't have too much trouble iwth them hunting down cory cats, flying fox, skunk botia etc. just for the sake of harassing somthing? I do realize each fish has his or her own personality, but apistogramma are so rare in these parts that I don't know jack diddily about them, so please get back to me.

Thanks,
Jason

 

[Neil]

Panduro are in one of the more aggressive groups of Apistogramma. They are capable of systematically hunting down any residents in a smaller tank and killing them. But the fish you mention will, in all likelyhood, not be too badly harassed. It is more likely that the aggression will be directed at the other Panduro in the tank. But , even that, is not a sure thing. Gotta try it to know for sure what will happen.

Neil

 

[M0oN]

Neil,
Thanks again, one last question and I'm good to go. I'll post results in a few months as well so people can better from my experience.

I'm stocking the tank with the following, keep in mind it will be heavily planted with a lot of driftwood and caves for territory.

1 upside down catfish
1 twig catfish
3 silver hatchetfish
3 flying fox/SAE (I haven't figured out which they are yet, too small)
1 skunk botia
6 praecox rainbow
5 cory cats
4 oto's
1 dwarf flounder
Malaysian trumpet snails
However many panduro get along in the tank.

Do you think the quarters are too cramped or is this just borderline of pushing it? Everything gets along quite nicely right now, but then again I have yet to add the cichlids...

 

[fideltagamma]

Personally I think that the tank would not be too crowded but..

Personally I prefer to keep only species from the same continent in the same tank trying to go biotope.

I would not advise you to keep hatchets in such small numbers. I would say at least 10, actually the same for corys, but for hatchets I would never buy less than 10. I think 15 would be the correct number, as schooling fish don't feel comfortable in small numbers.

So this is my opinion.

Best wishes

Daniel

 

[Neil]

1 upside down catfish
1 twig catfish
3 silver hatchetfish
3 flying fox/SAE (I haven't figured out which they are yet, too small)
1 skunk botia
6 praecox rainbow
5 cory cats
4 oto's
1 dwarf flounder
Malaysian trumpet snails
However many panduro get along in the tank.

I have to agree. This is alot of fish to put into a 29g. The USD cat can be a trouble-maker. And 6 rainbows are an active, large biolode. Tetras or pencilfish in larger numbers would probably be a better choice. Additionally, I don't think that the rainbows will tolerate tha water conditions you will need for optimal care and breeding of your panduro.

How about 2 tanks?

Neil

 

[M0oN]

Well Neil, the rainbow's are tough little guys, I've already got them in a pH of 5.7 with a gH that's very low as well (RO water) and they're doing just fine, even spawning with my nitrite levels at .25

I've decided on getting rid of the flounder and flying fox, hopefully the upside down catfish doesn't create too much of a problem, but I've been told by a few catfish nuts that in heavily planted tanks they prefer to sit in the back of the tank under dense cover all day and only come out for food.

I'll have to post some pictures of the entire tank when it's finally good to go for you guys and I'll keep you updated on how the panduro go...

Jason

 

[M0oN]

I decided to get rid of the hatchetfish, upside down catfish and flying fox, tank isn't so cramped now...

 

[fideltagamma]

I do not think it is of the hatchets. They are a good companion for apistos, I think.

Daniel

 

[M0oN]

I do not think it is of the hatchets. They are a good companion for apistos, I think.

Daniel

Well one of the reasons I got rid of them is because I bought them from Petsmart (they're fairly hard to find out here) and didn't notice hole in the head on them until I got them home for a day, their entire top jaw was basically rotted away...