Apistogramma Help

[niiko101]

Hi everyone, Just joined this forum.

I am new to fish keeping. I want an Apistogramma. I have done a lot of research on them. I know there is always more to learn so i am here to ask a few questions from experienced keepers.

What are the best tank mates to keep with an Apistogramma Agassizii or Cacatuoides?

All my research has told me that. Pencilfish and Rasboras are good to keep. What else might there be that is proven to be 100%. I know this questions it a little bit straight with not as much info as possible so ill add some. I do hopefully want a breeding pair. So i would like something that wont eat the eggs or fry. I have heard that cory cats go well, but if the apistos breed then its game over for the eggs and fry. And can even end in cory cats loosing eyes.
Input on bottom feeders that can co-exist with apistos would be very much appreciated.


Another questions is. I have a 43gallon. Just upgrade the pump to a Eheim 2217 canister. and i am not sure if the water flow is too high for these fish. I dont know how to judge what is gentle and what is not. So i will upload a video and hopefully someone can share some info in how to accurately judge water moment.

 

[Mike Wise]

First, welcome to the forum. After reading your post, I get the feeling you need to sit back and think of what you really want. Do you want a community of fish or do you want to breed apistos? Those who have been on this forum for a while know my mantra: a community tank is not a breeding tank. You have to decide which you really want and then we can make suggestions. Or just as good do a 'search' for your questions on the site. I'm sure you'll find your questions asked before by others. Also remember that there is not only one way to keep apistos successfully.

 

[niiko101]

First, welcome to the forum. After reading your post, I get the feeling you need to sit back and think of what you really want. Do you want a community of fish or do you want to breed apistos? Those who have been on this forum for a while know my mantra: a community tank is not a breeding tank. You have to decide which you really want and then we can make suggestions. Or just as good do a 'search' for your questions on the site. I'm sure you'll find your questions asked before by others. Also remember that there is not only one way to keep apistos successfully.

Thank you for your response. Everything I keep reading to do with apistos is that they do better in pairs or harems. I did find a post on here that says if I am not interested in breeding I could keep 1 male from different apistos that don’t look to similar such as a male a.agassizii and a male a.cacatuodies. Hopefully I did read that correctly. I would like a community tank with lots of colour and minimal agressition.

 

[Mike Wise]

If you truly want want a community tank that avoids most problems with breeding in a community situation then I suggest picking a couple of dissimilar-looking males. I will say that based on the photo of your tank it needs more structure if you don't want interspecies aggression.

 

[niiko101]

If you truly want want a community tank that avoids most problems with breeding in a community situation then I suggest picking a couple of dissimilar-looking males. I will say that based on the photo of your tank it needs more structure if you don't want interspecies aggression.

I have been having a really hard time with getting the tank to look the way I want it to. If I did enough research before hand I would of just did a planted tank right from the start. Are there any guides specifically for apistos and how to structure the tank or any guides for beginners ?

 

[ButtNekkid]

I have been having a really hard time with getting the tank to look the way I want it to. If I did enough research before hand I would of just did a planted tank right from the start. Are there any guides specifically for apistos and how to structure the tank or any guides for beginners ?

I´d like to think that a lot of driftwood, leaf litter and floating plants are a good starting point. This works for me brilliantly!

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I have been having a really hard time with getting the tank to look the way I want it to. If I did enough research before hand I would of just did a planted tank right from the start. Are there any guides specifically for apistos and how to structure the tank or any guides for beginners ?

Planted tanks are definitely a way forward.

The floating plants mentioned by @ButtNekkid are important because they have access to aerial CO2, an aren't limited by its availability. I also use them as an indicator of the <"nutrient status of the tank">.

Have a look at Bob Wiltshire's (ApistoBob) <"Aquarium care"> pages on keeping Apistogramma, they are really useful.

cheers Darrel

 

[niiko101]

Thanks guys for your replies. I have decided to re-do the tank. Using real plants such as java fern and anubias. Along with some more driftwood and dragonstone. This way i dont have to add C02 and can keep plants relativity healthy with some liquid fertilizer. Apon doing more research, I think i will steer clear of any bottom feeders. I might get a breeding pair (not really interested in breeding) but just to keep the aggression down if they do breed. If anyone has any information regarding how to go about not allowing the egg or fry to grow without disturbing too much. Or maybe just go with a male A. Agassizzi and A. Cacatuodies. Still 100% up in the air until i get this tank looking the way i want it and cycled. Also good school fish to match if anyone has any suggestions. Rasboras, Hatchetfish, Pencilfish and possibly even red barbs ?

Another issue i run into is the softness of the water in Sydney. Its at around 0-20ppm with PH around 8. I have heard i can use Seachem Discus Buffer in order to fix that and hopefully someone that experience with using the product or something similar with 100% success. Also what kind of Liquid plant fert do you guys recommend ?

 

[ButtNekkid]

Another issue i run into is the softness of the water in Sydney. Its at around 0-20ppm with PH around 8. I have heard i can use Seachem Discus Buffer in order to fix that and hopefully someone that experience with using the product or something similar with 100% success. Also what kind of Liquid plant fert do you guys recommend ?

I would advice against using those kind of products. Maybe RO/DI and/or peat instead?
You really don´t need any fertilizer with anubias or ferns.

 

[Mike Wise]

Your water is very soft so that is not a problem. The high pH is most likely due to the water department adding something like Sodium Hydroxide to the water in order to raise the pH and prevent erosion of the water lines. I think that adding some peat treated water to the tank should lower the pH to more acceptable levels.

 

[niiko101]

I would advice against using those kind of products. Maybe RO/DI and/or peat instead?
You really don´t need any fertilizer with anubias or ferns.

Your water is very soft so that is not a problem. The high pH is most likely due to the water department adding something like Sodium Hydroxide to the water in order to raise the pH and prevent erosion of the water lines. I think that adding some peat treated water to the tank should lower the pH to more acceptable levels.

Thanks for the replies. I just received my API KH/GH test kit. KH is 3 drops which is 3dKH 53.7ppm but the one that worries me is GH which was 20 drops which would be 20dGH if i have done the test corrently. Kind of worrying. Ill get someone else to do the test for me (slightly colour blind) to see if they get the same results, might just be me not being able to tell the colour change between orange and green until the green is much more pronounced.

 

[niiko101]

Ok so after doing the test 2 days in a row. With two different sets of eyes. dGH is 5-6 (83.4-100ppm). The way i did the test this time was to just fill a cup and use a syringe to fill the test tube after letting it sit for a minute or so. last time i did it straight from the tap.

 

[gerald]

Your city water department might have hardness (GH) and alkalinity (KH) values of their treated water system posted online, for comparison with your home testing. If not, a phone call to the water testing staff might get results. Ask for Hardness and Alkalinity; they will give you mg/Liter (same as ppm). "GH" and "KH" means nothing to most chemists - those are just aquarium hobby terms. 20 ppm vs 20 dGH is a HUGE difference!

 

[niiko101]

Your city water department might have hardness (GH) and alkalinity (KH) values of their treated water system posted online, for comparison with your home testing. If not, a phone call to the water testing staff might get results. Ask for Hardness and Alkalinity; they will give you mg/Liter (same as ppm). "GH" and "KH" means nothing to most chemists - those are just aquarium hobby terms. 20 ppm vs 20 dGH is a HUGE difference!

Hi, Yes they do have a charts thanks.

 

[gerald]

That's moderately soft; total Ca+Mg Hardness 46-61 mg/L (as CaCO3) = 2.5 - 3.4 dGH. Alkalinity 31-42 mg/L = 1.7 - 2.3 dKH. Conductivity 18-21 mS/m = 180 - 210 uS/cm (units typically used in aquarium lit). Looks like your Sydney water is just a wee bit harder than my local water in Raleigh, NC, which does fine for most of the common Apistos (maybe not the hard-core blackwater species).

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Hi, Yes they do have a charts thanks.

The water looks OK, my only worry would be that the disinfectant is chloramine, and there is quite a lot of it, so you would need a dechlorinator like "Prime", that specifically says it treats chloramine treated water.

Could you use rain-water?

cheers Darrel

 

[niiko101]

Hi all, The water looks OK, my only worry would be that the disinfectant is chloramine, and there is quite a lot of it, so you would need a dechlorinator like "Prime", that specifically says it treats chloramine treated water.

Could you use rain-water?

cheers Darrel

I could collect rain water. Also i already have prime

 

[Happyfins]

Thanks guys for your replies. I have decided to re-do the tank. Using real plants such as java fern and anubias. Along with some more driftwood and dragonstone. This way i dont have to add C02 and can keep plants relativity healthy with some liquid fertilizer. Apon doing more research, I think i will steer clear of any bottom feeders. I might get a breeding pair (not really interested in breeding) but just to keep the aggression down if they do breed. If anyone has any information regarding how to go about not allowing the egg or fry to grow without disturbing too much. Or maybe just go with a male A. Agassizzi and A. Cacatuodies. Still 100% up in the air until i get this tank looking the way i want it and cycled. Also good school fish to match if anyone has any suggestions. Rasboras, Hatchetfish, Pencilfish and possibly even red barbs ?

Another issue i run into is the softness of the water in Sydney. Its at around 0-20ppm with PH around 8. I have heard i can use Seachem Discus Buffer in order to fix that and hopefully someone that experience with using the product or something similar with 100% success. Also what kind of Liquid plant fert do you guys recommend ?

The water here in Sydney is fine for run of the mill apistos. I have cacatuoides, agasizzi, panduro and macmasteri and all but the macmasteri have bred. I agree with sachem prime as being a great conditioner and plenty of plants. I will pm you, seems to me you might benefit from a bit of local help.

 

[niiko101]

Hi everyone, recapping back to this thread at the tank is fully cycled now. Still with no stock tho. And wont have stock until the plants arrive.

Plants list is:
Banana Lillies
Java Fern
Lace Fern
Amazon Sword
Assorted Anubias
Christmas moss
Red moss (Caloglossa cf. beccarii)

After going over and over some stocking. I think i have narrowed it down to a few species that are suitable for my tank with activeness and colour.
Apistogramma Cacatuoides Pair or Apistogramma Agassizzi Pair
Red Pencilfish x6 (must have for the colour) Nannostomus marginatus mortenthaleri
Otocinclus vittatus x3

and the one that is still up in the air is either
Harlequin Rasbora (Trigonostigma heteromorpha) 10x
Splash Tetras (Copella arnoldi) Altho pretty pricey 6x
Black Emperor Tetras (Nematobrycon palmeri 'black') 10x
Purple Emperor Tetra (Inpaichthys kerri) 10x

After soeaking with a fish shop, They breed apistogramma, They said it is very possible to keep shrimp such as Riffle shimp (Australatya striolata) Which is a species native to Australia. Looking more into that tho.

Any input on this would be great. Thanks for the replies in advance.

 

[Happyfins]

Plants are fine, that red moss (is it a moss or a fungus?) is pricey. banana lillies are a headache to keep in good shape.
Red pencil fish are very expensive and the males aggressive toward one another. If you are new to all this I would go beckfordi.
Otocinclus are iffy. They might do well, they might not, also not cheap.
Harlequin rasbora are fine but I prefer the espei for looks and the hengeli for hardiness.
Emperor tetras can get a bit territorial in their own right. Don't know if they wouldn't start chasing your apistogramma.
I sure don't want to burst your bubble but if you are new to fish keeping I would go cheap and easy to avoid disappointment. You don't want to give up the hobby because all your expensive fish die.
I would recommend white clouds for schooling, cacatuoides for apistogramma (better tempered than agasizzi), bristle nose instead of otocinclus