Apistogramma borelli “Pantanal”

[Szawack]

So, I could not help myself, and purchased another project for my next tank, they are a proven trio of BorellI Pantanal? Now as you guys know with all of my question MR Google is terrible with. Is the borelli Pantanal, a naturally occurring strain in the wild? The seller I bought from, said the strain he got was a wild form that the Czech importer fixed line that what does that mean? Does that mean they essentially kept the exact wild form strain going? Also here is a pic of the male. He also gave me an extra female, so I will have 1 male three females.

Thanks!

 

[MacZ]

Pantanal is just the region the species mainly comes from. There is no such thing as A. borellii "Pantanal" it's like saying A. agassizii "Amazonas" or M. ramirezi "Llanos".

The description sound like they are just tankbred specimens of the wildform. And the fish look the part for that, too.

It would only be somewhat "special" if they are less than 10 generations from the wild caught fish.

 

[Szawack]

Ok got it Mac, here is what he said seems on par with what you said too! Smart cookie haha. Also have you ever kept borelli? Heard they like cooler temps.

 

[MacZ]

Haven't kept them since the 90s and back then really only for a short time.

 

[Szawack]

Ok awesome, what species you keeping now?

 

[MacZ]

None, I'm in the process of tearing down my tanks. Hard times. Last I kept Dicrossus filamentosus for rhree years.

 

[Szawack]

Aww man sorry to hear that hopefully you can get back to it! And that’s cool!

 

[Mike Wise]

Color morphs of wild A. borellii tend to show more yellow on the body in the norther part of its range than in the south. It is possible that your morph originated in specimens collected in the Pantanal, but without knowing where the original fish were caught I personally would not list a collecting location. Southern populations have been collected by Dr. Staeck in waters as low as 50°F/10°C, but I wouldn't keep them at that temperature. Northern populations probably will not adapt to temperatures below 68°F/20°C for any length of time.

 

[Szawack]

Color morphs of wild A. borellii tend to show more yellow on the body in the norther part of its range than in the south. It is possible that your morph originated in specimens collected in the Pantanal, but without knowing where the original fish were caught I personally would not list a collecting location. Southern populations have been collected by Dr. Staeck in waters as low as 50°F/10°C, but I wouldn't keep them at that temperature. Northern populations probably will not adapt to temperatures below 68°F/20°C for any length of time.

Here is what he said, and that makes complete sense, he said, they were a wild strain that the Czech importer, kept the fixed line going. So I think that’s what your saying.

 

[MacZ]

Little correction in terminology: A "strain" usually denotes the result of a breeding project, so not a natural variant or species. You can't breed a natural variant into a fixed line, because in contrast to a manmade breed, which has to be stabilized by linebreeding, they are stable due to being a natural species already.

So frankly, it doesn't make sense to me to try and "fix" a natural species. Your seller is either a bit confused about biology or is trying to make extra money from this.

So if he doesn't want to be accused of false advertisement, I'd drop that whole story and just say they are tankbred wild form fish, probably from specimens collected somewhere in the Pantanal and that's it.

 

[Szawack]

Little correction in terminology: A "strain" usually denotes the result of a breeding project, so not a natural variant or species. You can't breed a natural variant into a fixed line, because in contrast to a manmade breed, which has to be stabilized by linebreeding, they are stable due to being a natural species already.

So frankly, it doesn't make sense to me to try and "fix" a natural species. Your seller is either a bit confused about biology or is trying to make extra money from this.

So if he doesn't want to be accused of false advertisement, I'd drop that whole story and just say they are tankbred wild form fish, probably from specimens collected somewhere in the Pantanal and that's it.

That makes sense thanks

 

[Hanzle]

Wat mij nog rest te vermelden is dat het mannetje op jouw foto een zeer mooi exemplaar is