Apistogramma Agassizi

[dreamer]

I had a pair of agassizi's who got on really well and were really healthy; female was really strong yellow with a strong black stripe, and the male was really colourful.

The female just disappeared about 10 days ago, and the male seems a bit lonely. Then today his colours have gone really pale - no more black stripe, just a single black spot on his side, and generally a bit paler than usual.

I assume that the female has died (just before she disappeared she was hiding in caves) as we haven't seen her, and the tank is so heavily planted that we can't find the body.

I will replace her with 1/2 females for him, but i want to make sure the tank is clear of disease first; our shoal of silver tip tetra's seem to have something wrong with them; white/grey patches on them.

Do you think the male is just looking pale due to missing the female, or is this a sign of illness?

Also I'm not sure what is wrong with the tetra's - grey/white patches and one got a cloudy eye.

Water quality has been fine until this week as well - KH has changed from 8-10, GH has gone from 9/10 to 15 - maybe it's this although we can't explain the sudden water quality change - I did wonder if it was because the female had died in the water? Maybe it's this affecting his colour?

The other fish - tetra's, cory's, otto's, 2 firemouth's and loaches all seem fine.

Tank is 120L, heavily planted, water is good (pH 7.2, ammonia nil, nitrite was nil until this week then 0.1, nitrate is 50mg/l

 

[Discus Man]

A sudden increase in GH KH and an increase in Ammonia/ nitrite (can't have one without the other) would be lethal to apistos. Your pair weren't in a setup I would recommend, firemouths and such sound like a heavily stocked 30g tank...

My guess is stress especially from the sudden water chemistry change resulted in their death. I hate to sound like a mean ogre but one month is about the perfect timimg for death to come from a stress induced illness.

I would not replace these fish until you have fewer fish in the tank, find out what casued the GH to rise incredibly high (coral? tap water? )
and give the tank some time to mature.

 

[dreamer]

The tank is about 4-5 months old now, and the water has always been good - have been tracking.

The tank is over-filtered for its size, filter is for a 500L tank, and the tank although its 120L is heavily planted with loads of hidey holes; it doesnt seem to be a problem in terms of space etc.

We use a filter for the water, and then add salts etc., and it's only this week that the water quality has altered.

There have been no other death's, the firemouth's do not hassle the other fish, and the female apisto was fine right up until she disappeared.

I agree it sounds like water quality, but that only changed this week (possibly due to the dead fish?).

Does the pale colouring of the male indicate a problem? Or could it be that he's missing the female?

Was not intending on adding any more fish til I have got to the bottom of this.

 

[dreamer]

PS Nitrite went from 0 to 0.1, and Ammonia seemed to remain static - our testing kit doesn't show 0, only goes as low as 0.1.....

 

[farm41]

What is your water change schedule? How much water is changed?

 

[fishgeek]

were there any other signs ?
was the fish's behaviour normal were they eating
what size was there belly
do you know where they had come from

Andrew

 

[dreamer]

Hi - water change is c.30% once a week (give or take a couple of days). After testing the water and seeing high KH etc. we did a 65ish% water change - will test the water tonight again.

Fish were behaving completely normally until then, and the other fish still are. In fact, I forgot to mention there are 2 little chequerboards in the tank and they are happy as larry.

Not sure about her belly, as the first sign of oddness was her hiding in a cave (flowerpot), then she just disappeared. Whatever it was was very quick.

Does anybody know how to put a photo in a post, and I can post a pic of the male fish and tank?

 

[dreamer]

Well I just did a test using a different test kit and the results are interesting.

I was using Interpret tablets, which were showing Nitrite at 0.1 on Sunday, and 0.25 today, and Ammonia at 0.1.

Used a Nutrafin liquid kit today to compare with the Interpret results, and it has shown 0 of both.

Nitrate is also down at 25mg/l.

 

[apistodave]

The tankk is overcrowded. The firemouths and Loaches are aggerssivve-you may not have noticed anything but someone was getting an ass-whipping. Generally speaking the hardness changes wont do it. they go through more in the wild

 

[dreamer]

I did wonder about that, but talked it through with the shop and they figured it would be fine. The firemouth's chase each other and we have a careful eye on them, but the loaches just seem to keep themselves to themselves (only 2 of them). The apisto also holds/held their own agains thte firemouth's if they ever came close.

Perhaps the solution is to ditch the firemouth's then!

 

[farm41]

Firemouths and loaches too, that is if you ever want fry.

 

[aspen]

>>'Nitrate is also down at 25mg/l.'

i have never shown a nitrate reading this high, when i was trying to keep sensitive species like apistos etc alive. this usually means that you are over feeding the tank (or overstocked), and not performing proper water changes. change more water. but first, age a sample of your tapwater with an air pump for 24 hours and check for nitrates, etc. this may be your source. regardless, once you have checked your tapwater, then any change to these readings are happening inside the tank. please do so and post your readings. amm, nitrite, nitrate, ph, gh and kh if you have all of the kits. if your gh and/or kh is rising, then it is something you are adding in error, or some shells, substrate or other that is causing this increase- not good for softwater species.

>>'Also I'm not sure what is wrong with the tetra's - grey/white patches and one got a cloudy eye.'

the first thing you want to do is keep an eye on the cleanliness and other conditions of the water. cloudy eye indicates a bacterial infection and generally indicates a water quality issue. white patches on the bodies of tetras usually happens when new fish are added, or when water conditions go south. (neon tetra disease)

>>'We use a filter for the water, and then add salts etc.,'

i use aged tapwater- period. nothing else. when i want them to breed i use r/o water mixed with tap, and only occasonally have i used peat. imo there is no need to add anything else for softwater species, unless you have chloramines. a good tapwater conditioner like prime is good for cases where you need it.

apistos are nice fish but they require more care and attention than the other good starter fish in that tank. imo, you should decide if the firemouths or the apistos appeal to you the most. it is not a mix i would try.

rick

 

[dreamer]

Hiya

The Nitrates in our tap water are really really high; we are getting them down, but it's been about 50mg/L since we got the fish (3ish months ago) and now it's down to 25mg/L. They came from the LFS who keep them in hard tap water...

Tap water around here is high pH with chloramine, phosphates, nitrates etc., so is not suitable for the fish.

We tried RO from LFS but detected Nitrates and Ammonia in it! Took it back and got a lame excuse so decided not to bother with it again.

We were very cautions adding apisto's due to the water quality, but for 3 months they have been fine - amazing colour and fin development on the male, and the female was always fine; strong yellow and strong black stripe, with black spot in the middle.

The cloudy eye is clearing up, as are the white patches; I decided it must have been fungal or bacterial so treated accordingly, as well as water changes.

We have also used a bit of peat recently as our tap pH is high.

I think the overriding thing seems to be to get rid of the firemouth's - i'll be taking them back this weekend - lovely as they are, the apisto's are gorgeous! Firemouth's will have to wait for another tank.

I also wondered about neon tetra disease but can't really find any photo's of it - will be keeping a close eye on them!

 

[Christine-FishGrrl]

neon tetra disease will look like the red is disappearing and the belly will look sunken. I love neons but they are so inbred and generally arrive at LFS's so unhealthy that I would never put them in a tank with delicate fish like Apisto's. Or at least give them a long quarantine in a separate tank before adding them. The white patches and cloudy eyes definitely sound like water quality issues which I have had experience with in my own tanks. Don't worry about the pH and hardness, just reduce the amount of fish in the tank (which will give you more of cushion against disaster striking) and do regular water changes. If you really need to get the pH or hardness lower and cannot afford a R/O unit of your own, use tap and just add some distilled water (can get at grocery stores) or find another R/O machine. Many grocery and drug stores in my area have machines that do good quality R/O water for ~$0.25 per gallon. Depending on the size of your tanks and the hardness of your tapwater, you may not need to add that much R/O per water change to get the water in a suitable range for your fish.

 

[dreamer]

I don't have Neon's - they are Silver Tip Tetra's, but I understand that it's not just Neon's who can get Neon Tetra Disease?