Apisto semi-emergency, warring species

[elpaninaro]

Good evening all,

I am new to this forum. Have been posting some at another great place as I did my recent tank upgrade, and found this site tonight in my search for something more Apisto specific. I look forward to being here.

I would be grateful for any guidance on a bit of an emergency that has developed. First a very brief history,

I started up a 37G tank in January with a young pair of A. cacautuoides double red and they have done quite well in a community setup with 2 small tetra schools, Otos, SA puffers and corys.

This past Friday I moved everyone over to a 65 gallon tank with a lot of wood in it to provide a good cave network. The transition went smooth as can be and the fish love it. Tank cycled real fast since I brought over the old gravel plus the bio-wheel from the old filter.

This morning I put in a pair of A. hongsloi and a pair of A. bitaeniata. LFS said they would be fine in this tank with the cacatuoides- and I would hasten to add this LFS really knows their stuff and has never steered me wrong. So this is just about getting some expanded views from others- I am not out to criticize anyone since I know each fish has its own personality.

Well, the transition at first just appeared to be a little posturing and aggression that was fascinating to watch, but fairly harmless with no physical contact. And the cacatuoides were defending the ENTIRE wood structure against the other Apistos.

Tonight I got home and the female honglsoi has 3 large bites out of her tail. She was so tired I easily netted her and she is resting in a large net at the top of the tank with some swimming room and- for the moment- protected.

The bitaeniata pair and the hongsloi male seem to be unscathed (bitaeniata male might have one fin bite, but hard for me to tell), but they are in deep hiding in the upper reaches of the woodscape. And the cacatuoides- which never used to venture far from the bottom of the old tank with the caves- are actively seeking them out and chasing them.

And for the record- the cacautoides pair are fully grown and quite big fish. The female is as big as the males of the other 2 species and the male cacatuoides is bigger than all of them by a significant margin.

I am done being upset and just have some practical questions if I may (and I ask them knowing there may not be black and white answers),

1. Is there much chance that this aggression will settle down and the 3 pairs can find their own territories, or is it more likely that things will get worse?

2. Am I crazy to think this tank could house 2-3 pairs of Apistos living in harmony? (I did my best to select these going for different colors and, I thought, different "body types".)

3. If I wanted this tank to be a large community with 2-3 pairs of mini-cichlids, is removing the cacatuoides the right answer? Or are any of these species going to be problematic with each other?

I have my 37G down at the LFS on consignment with all the original equipment. If I remove the cacatuoides I could probably take back all that gear and just swap into a smaller tank for them without incurring much more expense. From what I read am I right in thinking a 29G would be a good size for them?

Thanks for any thoughts. I would love for this to all work out with the current scheme- but with what I have seen tonight I am just not sure that can happen.

 

[beleg]

Usually with cichlids changing the tank set up really helps reducing aggression. You might try removing cacs for a few days and then re introduce them into a re aquascaped tank.. If the cacs are much bigger they might again become badass again though..

One thing I experienced is if the dwarfs are the strongest or the toughest fish with no danger of being eaten in a tank, they become even more aggressive. So in community tanks some minor threat seems to reduce their aggression a bit. Don't know if anyone else has experienced that but my community tank with angel fish and A.cacatuoides and A.sp "steelblue" ran better when there were angelfish in it.

 

[Mike Wise]

Beleg is right on. Regardless of their size, they are cichlids and behave like cichlids. I find a useful guideline is to provide each apisto with a territory of at least 1 sq. ft. In aquaria with little decoration, large apisto males have been known to claim tanks almost 7 ft long! It is a good idea to complexly decorate the tank so that the fish cannot see from one end from the other by adding sight-blocking boundaries. Remove all of the cichlids during redecoration and then add all at once. Also have some floating tubes/logs in which any fish without a territory can hide. Good luck.

 

[elpaninaro]

Thank you for your reply beleg,

In looking at what I saw this morning, I am going to go with your possible scenario that the cacatuoides are big enough that there is no peaceful solution.

This morning I tried luring them with bloodworms, but could not get them out the easy way. So I had to take out all the wood and live plants and just net them. The new arrangement is nice too, but it would have been nice to have had time to really do it right. The other fish are so scared that I just redid the wood as best I could and as fast as possible.

So now I have 1 pair of bitaeniata and 1 pair of hongsloi with some battle scars, but quickly coming around and doing their own exploring. The female bitaeniata jumped the tank this morning at some point and I found her sitting lifeless on the floor. I have no idea how long she was there, but when I picked her up she started moving and back in the tank she seems good as new. Here's hoping...

Headed to the LFS when they open with a pair of A. cacatuoides and a newly purchased $55 piece of wood with Anubias all over it that I was not able to fit back into the wood scaping in the short time I spent on it. There had better be a full refund for all of it as far as I am concerned.

 

[elpaninaro]

Beleg is right on. Regardless of their size, they are cichlids and behave like cichlids. I find a useful guideline is to provide each apisto with a territory of at least 1 sq. ft. In aquaria with little decoration, large apisto males have been known to claim tanks almost 7 ft long! It is a good idea to complexly decorate the tank so that the fish cannot see from one end from the other by adding sight-blocking boundaries. Remove all of the cichlids during redecoration and then add all at once. Also have some floating tubes/logs in which any fish without a territory can hide. Good luck.

Hi Mike,

Sorry- I was posting when you were.

What you say makes good sense. I have about 30 pounds of wood in there, but the entire cave network did have some continuity- and that was probably my undoing.

I just deleted the rest of my post since thinking more closely on what you said I went back in there to have a look at how I reshuffled the wood. I had not considered the line of sight issue, and it just now took some minor adjustments to really and truly make 3 very distinct and separate cave networks.

And in the process I did find room to put back the wood piece with all the baby Anubias and once again the tank actually looks pretty cool!

Whew- I just needed to calm down I guess. Thank you again both of you for some good advice. Sorry to see the cacatuoides go, but there is plenty to look forward to.