actual species sizes ???

[bigtanksmallfish]

is there any reliable source anywhere to get actual maximum sizes species? quick google searches are all over the place and will give you 2-3 inches for all of them which is in my opinion far too vague. I know some people can do much better than that.
I want something longer in the body, here are the fish available to me within 1hrs driving:
agassizii many different kinds
baenschi inka
bitaeniata
borelli opal
cacatuoides many different kinds
D12
D50
hongsloi
iniridae
lineata
panduro
viejita iii
I got a 6ft tank and sump built and delivered by Concept Aquariums
I want larger Apistogramma I will see out with my Kerri tetras

 

[MacZ]

I don't know what sources you've tapped into, but my advice wpuld be to look into centimeter because then you get more exact numbers.

Besides that most species are close to each other. Males 6-7cm, females 4.5-5.5cm for most species.

Outliers would be A. borellii with an absolute maximum of 6cm for males, while females may stay under 4cm. In the other direction A. macmasteri has a tendency to grow quite big with 7.5cm for males and 6cm for females, especially in domestic breeds, which all tend to grow much larger than the wild forms.

 

[anewbie]

In truth you should focus more on behavior than on size though depending on height and width of your aquarium you might find most non assertive species lost - i can say my nijjensi were quite assertive and i did keep them with kerri tetra which oddly did not pray on frys.

 

[Drayden Farci]

I mean, 2-3" is fairly accurate for most species. My males have always been around 2.75" at full size, but at breeding facilities that pump brine shrimp and water changes for all the fish, I've seen males get 3.5" long and 1.5" tall. If you don't encourage them to grow rapidly like these places, then 1" tall and 3" long is fairly accurate for a final size. Not sure why 2-3" isn't accurate enough for your purposes?

As for longer-bodied fish from that list you gave:
agassizii
bitaeniata
cacatuoides
iniridae
lineata

But you also mentioned wanting "larger" Apistos, so these will probably appear bigger than any of the longer-bodied species above:
D12
D50
hongsloi
panduro
macmasteri (almost certainly not viejita, just be aware of that when purchasing)

These fish all have more robust bodies compared to the slender ones listed first.

 

[MacZ]

Not sure why 2-3" isn't accurate enough for your purposes?

The only thing I can imagine is the stupid cm/inch fish per liter/gallon water rule people are still using

 

[anewbie]

I mean, 2-3" is fairly accurate for most species. My males have always been around 2.75" at full size, but at breeding facilities that pump brine shrimp and water changes for all the fish, I've seen males get 3.5" long and 1.5" tall. If you don't encourage them to grow rapidly like these places, then 1" tall and 3" long is fairly accurate for a final size. Not sure why 2-3" isn't accurate enough for your purposes?

As for longer-bodied fish from that list you gave:
agassizii
bitaeniata
cacatuoides
iniridae
lineata

But you also mentioned wanting "larger" Apistos, so these will probably appear bigger than any of the longer-bodied species above:
D12
D50
hongsloi
panduro
macmasteri (almost certainly not viejita, just be aware of that when purchasing)

These fish all have more robust bodies compared to the slender ones listed first.

I'd move the cockatoo into the lower category - every male i've had have been quite bulky certianly as large if not larger than the d50 i had.

Also one problem with 'size' is females are of course a bit smaller so when someone sez cockatoo are x size they seem to pick a number between average female and male; and of course if you get a small female and large male (i've found high variance esp among domestic but also with wild - 1 of my female is a good 25% samller than the other female for example).

 

[Mike Wise]

Fish grow throughout their life; slower after sexual maturity, yes, but they still grow. So age - and proper maintenance - are major size determinations. Right now I have older (3+ years) apistos that are easily close to 10 cm/4" TL. I once saw a Cleithracara maronii (Key Hole Cichlid) that was close 17cm/7½" TL. This is a fish that is reported to grow only to 10 - 12cm/4-5".

 

[Drayden Farci]

I'd move the cockatoo into the lower category - every male i've had have been quite bulky certianly as large if not larger than the d50 i had.

Yes, I probably should have moved it. But they don't have the round belly that D50 have.

 

[bigtanksmallfish]

people need to chill out here this is why I have been a member for 2 years and never posted. it’s like a wars one sometimes I see on some posts. I am definitely not using the inch per gallon rule. I have around 200 gallons of surface with a 75 gallon sump loaded with 4 different foams (20ppi/30ppi/40ppi/50ppi and 60 bio bricks and media. I have lots of open space in the tank. there are 24 Kerri tetra that will max at 2 inch and a few small pleco that stay under 5 inch. I plan maybe 8 Apistogramma tops. this is not a huge load on the system. I want LONGER fish so I can see them from the couch without walking up to the tank and squinting. thank you.

 

[anewbie]

people need to chill out here this is why I have been a member for 2 years and never posted. it’s like a wars one sometimes I see on some posts. I am definitely not using the inch per gallon rule. I have around 200 gallons of surface with a 75 gallon sump loaded with 4 different foams (20ppi/30ppi/40ppi/50ppi and 60 bio bricks and media. I have lots of open space in the tank. there are 24 Kerri tetra that will max at 2 inch and a few small pleco that stay under 5 inch. I plan maybe 8 Apistogramma tops. this is not a huge load on the system. I want LONGER fish so I can see them from the couch without walking up to the tank and squinting. thank you.

Quite frankly most species of apistogramma are a bad choice for this layout period. You would be better off with (for example) laetacara araguaiae or laetacara dorsigera or even Cleithracara maronii all are larger and more peaceful in a group. I know first hand since i have 6 laetacara araguaiae in a 200. You can of course go larger with 2 angelfishes or some lovely Mesonauta egregius.... There are a lot of options outside the genus apistogramma and even more so i'm not sure why you would target that specific genus given how unsuitable it is for a large community aquarium.

 

[bigtanksmallfish]

I was actually told by multiple shops that this setup would be great with Apistogramma. sand and slate and driftwood and plants. in the wild their “tank” is way bigger than mine. it’s a whole river. and they are surrounded by tetras and plecos and even larger cichlids. I am not looking for any breeding or any fry but I know they will breed anyways, they always have for me, in any situations.

 

[Mike Wise]

Remember, most fish shops are mostly interested in selling fish and often have little or no expertise with every fish that they sell. Also note that although small, apistos are cichlids and territorial. Water volume is less important than territories available. Open tanks - tanks where an apisto can see across it - can often times posses only 1 territory. Visual territorial boundaries are very important. Without enough territories those apistos with no territory will be highly stressed and prone to diseases and aggression from territorial fish. Losses are more common than not.

 

[bigtanksmallfish]

I have been going to these shops for over 20 years and built relationships with people they actually laughed at these replies they are not looking to gauge me for a buck and I would not shop at a place where employees do not have the fishes health and happiness in priority. these are not Petsmart shops and PetCo shops.
at any rate I learned my lesson posting here, FACT REMAINS, in the wild Apistogramma are surrounded by other fishes, including tetras and plecos and larger cichlids. I don’t know how to delete my profile here so if someone else can do it I no longer need to be subjected to opinions people call facts.

 

[Drayden Farci]

I have been going to these shops for over 20 years and built relationships with people they actually laughed at these replies they are not looking to gauge me for a buck and I would not shop at a place where employees do not have the fishes health and happiness in priority. these are not Petsmart shops and PetCo shops.
at any rate I learned my lesson posting here, FACT REMAINS, in the wild Apistogramma are surrounded by other fishes, including tetras and plecos and larger cichlids. I don’t know how to delete my profile here so if someone else can do it I no longer need to be subjected to opinions people call facts.

Your three responses, coupled with the fairly obscure request in the original post, tell us all we need to know.

You just argued with one of the most respected Apistogramma experts on the planet. Congrats, you played yourself. *peace*

 

[anewbie]

I have been going to these shops for over 20 years and built relationships with people they actually laughed at these replies they are not looking to gauge me for a buck and I would not shop at a place where employees do not have the fishes health and happiness in priority. these are not Petsmart shops and PetCo shops.
at any rate I learned my lesson posting here, FACT REMAINS, in the wild Apistogramma are surrounded by other fishes, including tetras and plecos and larger cichlids. I don’t know how to delete my profile here so if someone else can do it I no longer need to be subjected to opinions people call facts.

While i have not caught wild apistogramma others who repsonded to this thread have been to south america to catch them so i believe they know exactly what lives in their native habitat and i also believe if you did basic research on their actual catch location you would realize that you are very mistaken in some of your comments.

 

[bigtanksmallfish]

my tank is not an open concept I have almost 1000 dollars worth of Mopani pieces in there planted with Anubias. “breaking sight lines”.
again with the assuming before asking how the tank is actually set up. assuming the hobbyist is an idiot. and that is appropriate and respectful? me having a legitimate debate is nothing compared to that.
I was beforewarned and told “the respected experts” on the Internet forums would treat me this way‍

 

[Drayden Farci]

@bigtanksmallfish:

Nobody here cares how much money you've invested in your tank. Trying to justify that your tank is suitable for the livestock you are wanting by listing off filter medias, sump sizes, and monetary amounts of driftwood tells us only one thing: You have more money than perhaps the average hobbyist. I have a 20 Long with a sponge filter, pieces of oak tree branches I found in my backyard, and leaf litter. My fish are happy and spawn regularly.

You said your tank had plenty of "open space." That is not what Apistogramma like or need - quite the contrary.

You seem obsessed with fish sizes and stocking...much like a new hobbyist would be.

You asked a weird question in your OP. A few people gave you valid answers, while also questioning why you needed to ask the question in the first place. You got defensive for some reason and started insulting everyone on the forum.

Good luck with your tank. If you think you'll "see" your Apistogramma from across the room, I have bad news for you. No matter what species you get, except for A. kullanderi and A. sp. Gigas II, you won't see from far away. They will hide in your "open" tank.

 

[bigtanksmallfish]

I want to thank all the goofs for the laughs we are having at the import shop

 

[anewbie]

Personally I recommend you buy 15 oscars for your aqarium. We all know that oscars are social fishes and since they are only 3 inches in the pet shop they must be suitable for a huge 100 gallon aquarium you have.

And if i am mistaken the experts at your local pet shop will surely correct me though they might recommend an additional 10 red tail catfish which are excellent tank mates with oscars.

 

[MacZ]

I no longer need to be subjected to opinions people call facts.

True. Bye then.