• Hello guest! Are you an Apistogramma enthusiast? If so we invite you to join our community and see what it has to offer. Our site is specifically designed for you and it's a great place for Apisto enthusiasts to meet online. Once you join you'll be able to post messages, upload pictures of your fish and tanks and have a great time with other Apisto enthusiasts. Sign up today!

Acclimatization

Wazaaaa

Active Member
Messages
106
Location
France
Can I empty the 4 bags (if there is 1 fish per bag) into the bucket and do the acclimatisation? No problem?

It may sound silly, but I'd rather but I prefer to ask
 

Ben Rhau

Apisto Club
Messages
566
Location
San Francisco
I've done 8 bags in one bucket before. You may need to lower the total water volume so that the drip can have more of an effect.

The only potential issue with apistos is that they are aggressive. If they're comfortable enough, they might fight.
 

MacZ

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,958
Location
Germany
From experience: if the fish come in, in really bad shape - breathing heavily and gasping at the top of the bag - just throw them into a quarantine tank without acclimation. Most wholesalers do this - and hope for the best.
YES! Plopp&drop if the fish come in distress! Completely forgot about this.
 

Ben Rhau

Apisto Club
Messages
566
Location
San Francisco
From experience: if the fish come in, in really bad shape - breathing heavily and gasping at the top of the bag - just throw them into a quarantine tank without acclimation. Most wholesalers do this - and hope for the best. Otherwise I use a slow drip method.
I agree with that. You want to get them out of that water as soon as possible.

It can be dangerous when there's a huge osmotic gradient, however. For example, I recently imported some fish whose water was > 2000 us, and my tank is 20 us. A compromise is to pour the bags into a bucket that contains RO to make it 50/50 (RO to bag water) and then drip. It's not ideal, but it's better than leaving them in polluted water and less of an osmotic shock.
 

dw1305

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Messages
2,755
Location
Wiltshire UK
Hi all,
if the fish come in, in really bad shape - breathing heavily and gasping at the top of the bag - just throw them into a quarantine tank without acclimation.
I like to get the fish from the bag into the tank fairly rapidly as well. I usually <"pour most of the water out of the transport bag"> (through a net, I know that accidents can happen) and then submerge the bag, fish and residual water <"in the quarantine tank"> and hopefully the fish will swim out of their own accord as the bag fills with tank water. If they haven't slide them out after #5 minutes by gently lifting the bottom corner of the bag and slowly withdrawing it.

cheers Darrel
 

anewbie

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,366
I know several apisto shippers that warn that as soon as you open the bag it can produce ammonia (as fresh air meets fish waste); but other knowledgeable site strongly insist upon drip acclimination. No clue which method is appropriate and how much it depends on your local water (vs bag water). I know one bag i received the other day with some wild Mesonauta mirificus the bag stunk (they put all of them in a single bag); so i did not bother with drip; but the other fishes in the same batch i did since their water seem clean (or cleaner).
 

Wazaaaa

Active Member
Messages
106
Location
France
I've done 8 bags in one bucket before. You may need to lower the total water volume so that the drip can have more of an effect.

The only potential issue with apistos is that they are aggressive. If they're comfortable enough, they might fight.
I ordered 4 air valves and 6m of silicone hose to make 4 hoses for the 4 bags
qwz1.png

The temperature will not be a problem, it is currently 40°C in the south west of France and the water in my tank is 27°C
 

MacZ

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,958
Location
Germany
I know several apisto shippers that warn that as soon as you open the bag it can produce ammonia (as fresh air meets fish waste); but other knowledgeable site strongly insist upon drip acclimination. No clue which method is appropriate and how much it depends on your local water (vs bag water).
It also depends on how long the fish were in transit. Internationally over days or nationally for at most a day or just two hours drive? With or without oxygen? And of course the parameter differences as well.
 

Wazaaaa

Active Member
Messages
106
Location
France
Personally I receive the fishes on Friday 22nd, this week my shop is closed because of the 14th of July, I just know that the fishes leave from Glaser (in Germany) and are reconditioned before being sent back to me in the south west of France, I will leave a message here as soon as they are in transit
 

MacZ

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,958
Location
Germany
Personally I receive the fishes on Friday 22nd, this week my shop is closed because of the 14th of July, I just know that the fishes leave from Glaser (in Germany) and are reconditioned before being sent back to me in the south west of France, I will leave a message here as soon as they are in transit
Knowing how it works in the EU the fish will be in the same bag with the same water for 24-48 hours at most, unless something unforeseen happens. Also Glaser uses oxygen, so the retailer from which you buy will likely have the problem discussed above. If they send the fish to you just with pressurized air and not with oxygen the whole problem with pH and ammonia won't occur. But that is pretty much the factor I can not estimate as I don't know the retailer you buy from. If they say they ship with Oxygen you know what to expect.
 

Wazaaaa

Active Member
Messages
106
Location
France
Knowing how it works in the EU the fish will be in the same bag with the same water for 24-48 hours at most, unless something unforeseen happens. Also Glaser uses oxygen, so the retailer from which you buy will likely have the problem discussed above. If they send the fish to you just with pressurized air and not with oxygen the whole problem with pH and ammonia won't occur. But that is pretty much the factor I can not estimate as I don't know the retailer you buy from. If they say they ship with Oxygen you know what to expect.
Ok it's ok aquaterra-diffusion (the shop in France) uses air under pressure :)
 

kivyee

New Member
Messages
2
I see. This is a different problem. Usually, the bags are not under high pressure.

What I'm saying is that opening the bag will release CO2 that has built up in the bag (from the fish respiring). The CO2 keeps the water acidic, which keeps most of the ammonia in the harmless ammonium form. When the air in the room exchanges with the air in the bag, the pH of the water can rise, so there will be more in the toxic ammonia form.

If you add water conditioner to the bag, it can minimize the stress of the ammonia. Just be careful to dose the appropriate amount.
I think while the primary principles of that theory is valid, the effects and time frame over which it occurs is irrelevant to the situation. While the pH will rise as dissolved CO2 concentrations equalize with atmospheric CO2 levels, without aeration this occurs over hours, at which time you will have diluted transport water with a significant amount of tank water and any ammonia concentration that had existed is likely a moot point. The point is there won't be a suddenly spike in pH due to the opening of the bag - it takes time for unaerated bag water to off gas CO2. Prime in the bag water is not a bad idea, as ammonia levels will be high and it will help mitigate the harmful effects of ammonia faster than just the dilution through drip acclimation.
 

Ben Rhau

Apisto Club
Messages
566
Location
San Francisco
I think while the primary principles of that theory is valid, the effects and time frame over which it occurs is irrelevant to the situation. While the pH will rise as dissolved CO2 concentrations equalize with atmospheric CO2 levels, without aeration this occurs over hours, at which time you will have diluted transport water with a significant amount of tank water and any ammonia concentration that had existed is likely a moot point. The point is there won't be a suddenly spike in pH due to the opening of the bag - it takes time for unaerated bag water to off gas CO2. Prime in the bag water is not a bad idea, as ammonia levels will be high and it will help mitigate the harmful effects of ammonia faster than just the dilution through drip acclimation.
That sounds reasonable, a couple points:

1. It’s sensible to measure the water, as it might be above 7 regardless of mechanism. I routinely add Prime, since I don’t see a point in making the fish wait.

2. Whether the dilution makes it moot depends on the speed of the drip relative to the volume.
 

Wazaaaa

Active Member
Messages
106
Location
France
They left yesterday at 15h16 (3.16 pm), I have to receive them today between 13h00 and 18h00 (1 and 6 pm)
 

Members online

Forum statistics

Threads
17,916
Messages
116,204
Members
13,028
Latest member
JaconieMalonie

Latest profile posts

Josh wrote on anewbie's profile.
Testing
EDO
Longtime fish enthusiast for over 70years......keen on Apistos now. How do I post videos?
Looking for some help with fighting electric blue rams :(
Partial updated Peruvian list have more than this. Please PM FOR ANY QUESTIONS so hard to post with all the ads poping up every 2 seconds….
Top