A. hongsloi and A. bitaeniata

[elpaninaro]

Good evening all,

My semi-emergency thread of a few days ago is all resolved. I took the cacatuoides back to the LFS and within 24 hours felt so bad for abandoning them that I went back to the LFS and took my old tank setup off consigment, brought it home- and the next day gave the cacautoides their own home. So I now have 2 tanks and I think I have taken another key step towards a truly fanatical state of fishkeeping

When I removed the cacatuoides from the 65G, I left behind newly introduced pairs of hongsloi and bitaeniata which were pretty equal in size. I also redid the wood scaping and created two separate and distinct cave networks on each side of the tank.

At the LFS's advice, I also got a second female each of the 2 species and this did cut down on aggression quite a bit and I thought all would be well.

But now, the bitaeniata male has claimed the cave complex on the left and the larger of the two binaeniata femals has claimed the cave complex on the right. They are all still working it out without getting physical and the hongsloi females are definitely working the situation and I am ok there. They have been haggling with the female bitaeniatas and slowly but surely it seems like each female is finding her own "micro territory"- though the hongsloi are having a harder time since they get no help from their male.

The hongsloi male is just wussing out. He rests on the bottom of the tank except when he is trying to get one of his females to mate with him- and he seems to take no part in claiming turf.

And today I noticed someone took a bite out of his rear fin- and my money is on the bitaeniata male.

At what point do I need to do something do you think? This aggression is nothing like the nightmare when the cacatuoides were in there- but is bites out of fins generally a good sign that there is no hope of eventual peace?

One of the final additions to the tank is going to be a 6 inch long centipede knife fish. Very docile creature, but I wonder if its size might make it a good stabilizing presence? I have found in the past that warring fish suddenly behave when something bigger comes along. So might it help to put the knife fish in now versus in a couple of weeks?

Thanks for any thoughts. I almost have this right I think and look forward to being done stocking this tank so I can sit back and enjoy (and so its residents can do the same!)

 

[Mike Wise]

Every fish has its own personality. Some are just more aggressive than others (not much differnt than people). If your fish cannot see across the entire length of the tank, things should work out. Tail nipping is less common than outright shredding in fighting apistos. Out of curiosity, what are you feeding your apistos?

Your Centipede Knifefish (Steatogenys duidae) is a nocternal predator that can reach over 8"/20cm in length. Slender fish (like your bitaeniata) are prime food for such a fish! The knife will also push the apistos out of their caves & claim one for its own.

I would suggest some more placid top swimming fish for community members.

 

[elpaninaro]

Hi Mike,

I feed thawed out bloodworms in the morning and then Tetra flake food in the evening.

At certain vantage points (top to middle and right up front along the bottom) the apistos can see across the length of the tank, but not in areas where there is woodscaping.

As of this AM the male hongsloi has a couple more tiny nips in his tail but is hanging out in more prominent places too. Females are all at peace with each other now and sticking more to their chosen spots- male bitaeniata is not aggressing with the female hongsloi quite as much.

On the centipede knife, I googled the genus and species you listed and not the same fish. I will check the scientific name when I am at the LFS next. This is a much smaller fish (6 inches long) and mouth nowhere near large enough to take on an apisto (I have had clown knives before and know the jaw is deceptively small.)

In any event, will post it for your review. LFS actually commended him as a good choice to round out the tank- but let's see once I find the name and post it here. They told me it is a very rare fish they see once or twice a year at most.

What really kills me about this is that a week ago I had a very happy and balanced 37G tank that had run like clockwork for almost a year. The one thing I am learning about fish is that I run into almost all my big trouble when I try to change things up.

Thank you for all your help. I appreciate it.

 

[Apistomaster]

Maybe the SA Knife will mind it's own business but I wouldn't count on it. Mike is right. SA Knife Fish lack the jaws of the Notopterid Knife Fish but none-the-less, are efficient predators, especially at night when your Apistos sleep.

It almost sounds like your male A. hongsloi isn't feeling well if something is taking pieces from it's fins. It should defer to a brooding female's aggression but it should also be able to avoid being a target.

 

[elpaninaro]

Just to follow up- you are right about the honglsoi male. I took him in this AM- thought he was dead, but he was just barely breathing. Really odd diagnosis at the LFS- he was badly bloated and they attributed it to a bacterial infection in the digestive tract. Luckily not contagious, but they euthenized him for me since there was little hope for recovery.

I will go with you and Mike's take on the SA knife fish. As noted at another forum- and a story I will spare all here- the cacatuoides did not fare well going back and forth like they did, and so they are back in the big tank and everyone is reunited. A change of the woodscape plus the fact they were gone for a week has really cut down on overall aggression and it seems things will be ok.

LFS told me the 2 female hongsloi should be fine without a male, so I am going to just let this tank settle down and get a new male in a couple of weeks and probably call it a day there.

With a hongsloi male added plus a little algae eating assistance when the tank is more established- the final stocking would be as follows,

Pair A. cacatuoides
A. bitaeniata- 2 females, 1 male
A. honglsoi- 2 females, 1 male
2 dwarf SA puffers
4 corys
5-6 Otos
7 Cardinal tetras
6 Lemon tetras
12 Head and Tail light tetras

I think that should make for a lovely tank without tempting fate by adding something else that is big like that knife fish. And I am not going to add the checkerboard cichlids either. I think 3 families is enough

Thanks again for all the help everyone. I was just not prepared to deal with what these Apistos did to each other at first, but now today I really do think it is going to be all good.

 

[Mike Wise]

Puffers, even the smallest, are notorius fin nippers. They are not a good community tank member.

 

[Apistomaster]

Those little puffers are even hard to keep together. The constantly circle each other with one eye watching for an opportunity to take a nip out of the other.
Even so, a species tank with a small group, five for example, is a lot of fun. They are an interesting fish and their small size makes them my favorite among all the puffers. They can be bred in captivity although that is not an easy thing to do.

 

[elpaninaro]

Hey guys,

Sorry to be so long responding. Lots going on- but life is good with a happy tank to provide relaxation.

On the puffers- they have actually been in there almost since the beginning and were not a planned new addition. No nipped fins from them and they seem to get on- though the tiny one (one of the puffers has grown to full size at just over an inch and quite fat but the other remains quite small) can be a bit snippy if anyone gets too close. But I appreciate the caution. I will consider myself lucky in this tank and remember in future things might not work like they have here.

I am done stocking now except for the replacement male Apisto hongsloi and it seems I have a happy tank.

I did not get any more otos, but instead put two Farlowellas in there. They were labeled acus, but I suspect they are vittata after doing some internet research. Most of my plants were getting really covered with algae, and those two have them looking great in just the past week. Adding them was a hoot too since the male Apisto cacatuoides did not like them at all at first- but when he did his dance they just ignored him. He finally got over it and they have done a great job tank cleaning.

Also put in one of those miniature plecos- already an adult at just over an inch. He is doing good cleanup work too and I catch a glimpse of him every so often. Really neat black color with tiny cream colored dots.

The head and tail light tetras are great too. They spend their time at the top of the tank which really fills out the space well. No other fish I put in there would spend their time there and so that was a nice bonus.

Anyhow, just wanted to put an update out there and thank all of you for all the advice in recent weeks. Things have worked out well, and as soon as my old 37G setup sells at the LFS- I am thinking I will apply the proceeds to one of those Oceanic cube tanks and try saltwater!