A. baenschi - good parents? Or remove fry?

[Mud Pie Mama]

This is one of my favorites - Apistogramma baenschi. After a year of waiting for a local hobbiest whoes breeding attempts were unsuccessful; I bit the bullet and splurged to ship in my own batch. Unfortunately, although I planned and plunked down my cash to obtain five pairs; I'm left w/ four girls but just one male. (Two other males died within the first 24 hrs and I lost another the first week.) So....I really want to get some babies safely growing along. Also, I wonder if these A. baeneshi are a more sensitive species?


I now have two seemingly happy females staking out their side of the tank, as well as their favorite hidey-holes in the driftwood. There is another very unhappy, sub-dominate female that is getting the short end of it. Yesterday I saw not only the two dominant females flarring and chasing her off; but I witnessed one female and the male join together in cornering her and chasing her wildly around the tank. I managed to nab her this morning when she was resting inside her terracotta pot home. I want her to live, so I've moved her out of there.

Now I noticed one of the female A. baenschi who's been guarding a clutch of eggs acting very skittish and excited. I spied carefully through the crack in the driftwood and can see the eggs are hatched. We've not got some wigglers!

But now what!? Should I try to move them out? Should I wait until they are free swimming and try siphoning them? Or should I remove the male and other female? Is it safe to leave the mother in with the fry? They are in a 15g tank, lots of driftwood, a few plants. Since these fish have been so problematic, I'm thinking I'd like to have some fry safely growing.

Also, I can't get these A. baeneshi to eat anything except live blackworms. Not even frozen mysis or frozen blood worms. Help?

 

[Zack Wilson]

Congrats on your spawn! Baenschi are great fish, and I think you'll find they make great parents. My personal inclination would be to remove the other pair and let this pair do their thing. The female will do a good job fanning and tending the wigglers and the males are generally well-behaved too. My pairs have always been very cooperative and made good parents. A 15 is on the small side for more than a pair. My pair wouldn't tolerate any extras in a 30 breeder. The female tended to range the whole of the 30 with the fry.

As to feeding, persistence is key. They might be spoiled with the blackworms, but you'll want to get them eating other things too. Try some frozen brine shrimp. Keep trying. I wouldn't starve them too much right now, but once the fry are getting larger, you'll want to introduce them to other foods too. You might find the parents will like the bbs too, once you start feeding the fry.

 

[Mud Pie Mama]

Thanks for the info. Right now I have a trio in this 15g; one male - two females. I have a 20 long planned as their more permanent home, this 15 is just their temporary quarantine tank.

So, just move out the 2nd female? Do I need to worry because of this tank being smaller that the mom could injure the male?

 

[Noddy65]

Male A. baenschi are in short supply in Aus...(it seems about 90% of the young produced are female).
I found myself in a similar situation to you last year...two males and about 6 females.
I set each female up in her own 50 litre tank and waited for her to come into breeding dress (really yellow with really black stripes) and popped a male in with her, let them spawn and then removed the male. This way I cycled the two males through all six females and had fry from them all. Occasionally I had to house the male in a little fry saver inside the tank as the sudden intrusion wasnt appreciated by some of the females but after a day or two the male was accepted and I released him, eggs usually were produced within a week.

Regards
Mike

 

[Inka4040]

My baenschis are phenomenal parents. They managed to raise most of their fry to a safe size in a 29 gallon tank with such notorious fry eaters as danio choprai and female bettas. The babies are pushing about 1/2 inch now, and the female seems to have lost very few of them. The male establishes an outer perimeter, and the female guards the fry as best she can, though they are at the age where they are getting a bit of wanderlust. I have found them to be very easy to spawn.

 

[Mud Pie Mama]

Fry Updates

First I want to say a big "Thank You" for the very helpful suggestions and advice.

Some Updates:

On 04/08/08
I got home from work and checked on my brooding female A. baenschi. WHOOOHOOOO! The wigglers were free swimming. I decided to follow Mike from Aussie's advice and move out the the male (papa) and second female. Setting them up in another breeding tank. I kept fingers crossed, hoping I could do this w/ minimal disturbance to the new mama and fry.

After alot of work...."Suprise, suprise, suprise!" A kink in my scheme! I had drained 75% of the water off from this tank. With an airline hose too, I might add. (Wanted to be sure to not disturb the new fry.) Caught the papa. Searched for female #2 - nowhere to be seen. Finally, I lifted the large, centerpiece of driftwood. Another batch of eggs! I very carefully replaced the driftwood. Sat back, considering, what the heck to do? I then slowly added the water back. And put papa back in too.

The driftwood with the eggs completely filled the 15g tank. No way could I fit it into the available 10g. The altenative, moving the fry, well, I didn't want them in the the uncycled tank.

I really hoped I didn't make the wrong call. It's not greed, as much as being too anthropomorpic. I don't want to traumatize female #2. She got it in gear and worked so hard to catch up w/ her rival. Also, with the other assurances that A. baenschi male are good dads, I decided to keep in the male.

 

[Mud Pie Mama]

Fry Updates Part 2 / AKA - Mama Wars!

04/12/2008

My second female Apistogramma baenschi, unfortunately, was not smart enough to lay her eggs at the opposite side of the tank from Mama #1. Instead choosing the exact center. I came home to an all-out female brawl in their tank. Both females had noticable - half moons - sections missing from their tails.

Apparently the second female's eggs had hatched into wigglers. Mama #1, perhaps seeing the movement, had decided these should be with her babies too. She was busy dashing under the driftwood and snatching the wigglers to move them to her front corner. Mama #2 was equally busy trying to save them by move them all out to the opposite back corner. Inbetween moving of the wigglers they were also lip-locking fights. OH MY! OH NO! What to do?

Fortunately I had a tank divider in my aquarium supply closet! I used an inverted clay pot to safe guard the one group of wigglers. The rest I tried waving gently over to the other side with my hand. When I pulled the driftwood, to insert the divider, the two females went crazy. They became a rolling bundle of brawling fish. I tried separating them with my hand but they were vicious! (These gals aren't but an 1 1/2" big!) So I grabbed a net and managed to put fiesty Mama#1 in a "time-out".

After getting the divider set up along with a few rocks, plants and clay pot homes; I crossed my fingers and said a few prayers. I was hoping that, in spite of this upheaval, the wigglers would still make it.

Now, over a week later, I'm finally seeing active, free-swimming fry in each side of the tank. However, I do think these fry are all from Mama #2, and the first fry were lost during the brawling. Thankfully, neither female seems to have sustained any permanent damage during the scuffles. Whew!

Papa is in the tank on Mama#1's side. So far, they seem to be getting on admirably.

 

[bigbird]

:biggrin: It sounds like a great film script. The way you discribed it was picture perfect and I could see it all with you. Hope the remaing fry survive. Wow sounds like normal gals protecting the brood. cheers jk