Pair of A. Hongsloi or Borelii in 35 gal community tank?

[Lemonprophet]

I currently have an extremely densely planted 35 gallon tank (H48, W76, D37cm) with

7 green neon tetras
11 ember tetras
1 3' ancistrus sp
6 Bronze corys
8 Kuhli loaches

The tank is ~80 percent RO with lots of leaf litter, caves with peat moss in the filter, and has been running for ~8 months
Recently, my centrepiece fish (Male betta) died and I was considering a pair of Apistogramma hongsloi or Borelii

I do have tank dividers and a spare 15 gallon in case anything goes south

Could I try attempt this setup? And if I couldn't are there any other species of dwarf cichlid I could try?

P.S I will attach an image of the tank ASAP

 

[MacZ]

Scratch A. borellii and scratch having a pair. A. hongsloi are able to hold their ground with that mass of other bottomdwellers but if breeding a female Apistogramma will likely decimate the Pangio while an Ancistrus is generally a serious stress factor for Apistogramma.

If you can't be convinced of not adding any dwarf cichlids at all, only add a single male A. hongsloi.

Also what do you call extremely densely planted? We regularly have people come here, say densely planted and it turns out to be a handful of Anubias and 3 single specimen of frogbit.

 

[Lemonprophet]

Scratch A. borellii and scratch having a pair. A. hongsloi are able to hold their ground with that mass of other bottomdwellers but if breeding a female Apistogramma will likely decimate the Pangio while an Ancistrus is generally a serious stress factor for Apistogramma.

If you can't be convinced of not adding any dwarf cichlids at all, only add a single male A. hongsloi.

Also what do you call extremely densely planted? We regularly have people come here, say densely planted and it turns out to be a handful of Anubias and 3 single specimen of frogbit.

Early tank is this, but the entire back wall has grown out now, and I have added Peat moss, removed the carpetting plants and replaced it with a leaf litter, I have also added a secondary corner sponge filter, I can add a picture of the current tank as soon as I am in a position to (I am on a work PC rn and do not have many images of my tank)

Edit: I just realised I had not added the monte carlo/ hairgrass (when this image was taken, and it has been removed anyways) , and the lobelia has been moved backwards into the wall of Rotala (Not visible in this image) Java ferns, vals, and hornwort

P.S THE BETTA IS NO LONGER ALIVE:

 

[Lemonprophet]

Early tank is this, but the entire back wall has grown out now, and I have added Peat moss, removed the carpetting plants and replaced it with a leaf litter, I have also added a secondary corner sponge filter, I can add a picture of the current tank as soon as I am in a position to (I am on a work PC rn and do not have many images of my tank)

Edit: I just realised I had not added the monte carlo/ hairgrass (when this image was taken, and it has been removed anyways) , and the lobelia has been moved backwards into the wall of Rotala (Not visible in this image) Java ferns, vals, and hornwort

P.S THE BETTA IS NO LONGER ALIVE:

I can prove this in ~ 2 hours when I get home

And if specimens of Apistogramma will not work, do you believe a pair of Bolivian blue rams could?

 

[anewbie]

Scratch A. borellii and scratch having a pair. A. hongsloi are able to hold their ground with that mass of other bottomdwellers but if breeding a female Apistogramma will likely decimate the Pangio while an Ancistrus is generally a serious stress factor for Apistogramma.

If you can't be convinced of not adding any dwarf cichlids at all, only add a single male A. hongsloi.

Also what do you call extremely densely planted? We regularly have people come here, say densely planted and it turns out to be a handful of Anubias and 3 single specimen of frogbit.

While the cory and pleoc are issues i've kept and bred several species of apistogramma with pangio without issues including a. sp winkelfleck (a fish somewhat similar to hongsloi) and a. pucallpaensis (a fish somewhat similar to borelli); while the females don't esp like the pangio the pangio do not harm the eggs or frys and unlike cory they are a bit shier and will tend to avoid conflict.

This comment is not an indication that i endorse keeping pangio with breeding dwarf cicihild but rather just that it can work. Naturally it is not clear to me having a nervous female is a good thing.

 

[Lemonprophet]

While the cory and pleoc are issues i've kept and bred several species of apistogramma with pangio without issues including a. sp winkelfleck (a fish somewhat similar to hongsloi) and a. pucallpaensis (a fish somewhat similar to borelli); while the females don't esp like the pangio the pangio do not harm the eggs or frys and unlike cory they are a bit shier and will tend to avoid conflict.

This comment is not an indication that i endorse keeping pangio with breeding dwarf cicihild but rather just that it can work. Naturally it is not clear to me having a nervous female is a good thing.

I probably won't be keeping Apistogramma based on the current comments , however, do you think a pair of Bolivian Rams would work in the tank? I'm not saying that I will put them in, but I'm just cycling through ideas for new centrepiece fish

 

[anewbie]

I probably won't be keeping Apistogramma based on the current comments , however, do you think a pair of Bolivian Rams would work in the tank? I'm not saying that I will put them in, but I'm just cycling through ideas for new centrepiece fish

I would keep borelli over rams assuming the temperature is on the lower end for the pleco. A single male borelli or i guess single bolivian ram would work.

 

[Lemonprophet]

I would keep borelli over rams assuming the temperature is on the lower end for the pleco. A single male borelli or i guess single bolivian ram would work.

And just to clarify, the main issue with keeping pairs is the horde of tetras, and the issue of Corys and ancistrus stressing any potential pairs during breeding?

 

[Mike Wise]

Stress works both ways. You have a lot of potential fry predators in that tank, at least a brooding female will consider them as such. A community is not a breeding tank ... and any tank with a male and female apisto of the same (or sometimes similar) species is a breeding tank.

 

[Lemonprophet]

Scratch A. borellii and scratch having a pair. A. hongsloi are able to hold their ground with that mass of other bottomdwellers but if breeding a female Apistogramma will likely decimate the Pangio while an Ancistrus is generally a serious stress factor for Apistogramma.

If you can't be convinced of not adding any dwarf cichlids at all, only add a single male A. hongsloi.

Also what do you call extremely densely planted? We regularly have people come here, say densely planted and it turns out to be a handful of Anubias and 3 single specimen of frogbit.

This is my tank as of rn, does it qualify as densely planted? (Excuse the buildup on the outer glass)

 

[MacZ]

Frankly, no, rather lightly planted. Most people would define densely planted as most of the volume filled out with plants and barely any open water. I'm on my phone right now, so search for tanks by @dw1305 , then you will know densely planted.

And no worries about the lime scale. I don't care.

 

[Lemonprophet]

Frankly, no, rather lightly planted. Most people would define densely planted as most of the volume filled out with plants and barely any open water. I'm on my phone right now, so search for tanks by @dw1305 , then you will know densely planted.

And no worries about the lime scale. I don't care.

Just a quick search displays the depth of my in-expertise lol, My tank is clearly not very heavily planted compared to some of the tanks I'm seeing now, I'm quite frankly embarrassed to have called my tank densely planted. I'll probably slide away from the idea of a 'pair' of dwarf cichlids, or any whatsover in my current tank, and get something docile or more semi agressive, like a single betta or gourami as a centrpiece.

However, could I try a 17 gallon set up (species only), with only a pair or a single dwarf cichlid with or without some of the more peaceful Nannostomus? I am quite fascinated by these fish and would love to attempt to see some of the courting behaviour or vibrant colours that is so often mentioned online, I have more spare tanks (within the 10 to 15 gallon range) that I could always separate the fish into if this got bad, as well as to raise any potential (maybe I'm getting ahead of myself) fry.

 

[anewbie]

Here is one of my lightly planted aquariums; back and front:

 

[Lemonprophet]

Here is one of my lightly planted aquariums; back and front:
View attachment 16411View attachment 16412

This is just making my previous 'densely planted' statement seem more and more embarrassing for me lol. How do you accomplish this sort of volume of plant growth? Is this sort of set up accomplishable without CO2 (which I frankly don't have the funds for), and the kind required when keeping dwarf cichlids?

 

[anewbie]

This is just making my previous 'densely planted' statement seem more and more embarrassing for me lol. How do you accomplish this sort of volume of plant growth? Is this sort of set up accomplishable without CO2 (which I frankly don't have the funds for), and the kind required when keeping dwarf cichlids?

That was done without co2 - a year growth - it started like this:

So it did take around 15 months to get there.... guess i'm just lucky when it comes to plants - though i suppose it helps to pick the right plants.

Having said this i found that dwarf cichild are just as happy (or happier) to hide under leaves than around plants/wood. So having an aquarium with light planting and a good layer of leaves works well.

 

[Lemonprophet]

That was done without co2 - a year growth - it started like this:
View attachment 16413

So it did take around 15 months to get there.... guess i'm just lucky when it comes to plants - though i suppose it helps to pick the right plants.

My luck in plants... is questionable at best There's normally a 50 percent chance it dies, 49 percent chance hair algae says yummers and takes over, and 1 percent chance it acts like a plant, definitely would want to try something like this with vals tho in the future.

As a side question, would a 17 gallon (species only tank) with defined territories (I.e memorable pieces of hardscape, plants), work as a tank for a pair of apistos? I am totally fascinated with these fish and would love to attempt to see courting behaviour and maybe even spawning behaviour in one of my own tanks, I believe I have the spare sponge filters and tanks to raise any potential fry until I can sell or give them away to a whole seller or friends.

 

[anewbie]

My luck in plants... is questionable at best There's normally a 50 percent chance it dies, 49 percent chance hair algae says yummers and takes over, and 1 percent chance it acts like a plant, definitely would want to try something like this with vals tho in the future.

As a side question, would a 17 gallon (species only tank) with defined territories (I.e memorable pieces of hardscape, plants), work as a tank for a pair of apistos? I am totally fascinated with these fish and would love to attempt to see courting behaviour and maybe even spawning behaviour in one of my own tanks, I believe I have the spare sponge filters and tanks to raise any potential fry until I can sell or give them away to a whole seller or friends.

Depends on the dimension - if most of the space is in height then not so well but if it is relatively low and long then it would be fine. borelli would work easily; though depending on the dimensions other species might be fine.

 

[Lemonprophet]

Depends on the dimension - if most of the space is in height then not so well but if it is relatively low and long then it would be fine. borelli would work easily; though depending on the dimensions other species might be fine.

The tank in question is 61cm long x 36 cm wide x 32cm tall

 

[anewbie]

A pair of borelli should work well - just give the male some place to hide if the female breeds. Leaves, drift wood and such...

 

[Lemonprophet]

A pair of borelli should work well - just give the male some place to hide if the female breeds. Leaves, drift wood and such...

Gottit! Super excited to set up and see the results of an apistogramma only tank! Hope to post results on this forum

P.S Should I keep some of the more Nannostomus with the apistogramma? Apparently females can eat their fry and eggs out of sheer boredom and one of the only recommended dithers I can find is Nannostomus