substrate?

[kretz11]

Hi,
I've just aquired a 120 gallon tank that I would like to plant. I've always used sand in my planted tanks with moderate success, but would like my plants to really flourish. What would be a better substrate choice? It will be fairly heavily planted with CO2 injection. Also, what would be the best way(cheapest) to get close to 360watts over it? Any input would be greatly appreciated.


thanks
kevin

 

[tjudy]

I prefer a medium/fine gravel over sand in a plant tank. You will not be sweeping the substrate much, and sand tends to get 'dead zones' where anaerobic conditions exist. I use a size 30-40 gravel. I also use Flourite, but prefer to use a thin layer on the bottom of the tank, then cover it with less expensive gravel.

360 watts.... the cheapest way to go will be to try to fit 10 shop light under the hood. What a pain. You will be happier, and less dangerous, spending the money on a good power compact unit.

 

[farm41]

I agree with Ted, I would buy 5 bags flourite and top it off with whatever gravel you like to a 3" depth in the front to 4" in the back.

http://ahsupply.com

The ahsupply 6x55watt kit will get you 330 watts. They have everything you need, including the best reflectors around.

The best thing would probably be metal halides(more money).

Cheapest would be diy, ballast, bulbs and sockets for under $150.

 

[kretz11]

If I was to decide to use MH, where would be the best place to buy from? How many watts should I look for & at what k(5500?) What size are those bags of flourite your refering to?


thanks
kevin

 

[farm41]

I'll answer the easy one first, flourite is 15lbs and $20 a bag.


I don't have experience with the metal halides, but some buy from http://www.hellolights.com

5000K- 6500K is the place to be and I would use the 175 watt pendant lights.

HTH

 

[tjudy]

ahsupply.com has some great prices on their kits. I never realized that they could be that inexpensive. IMO, metal halide is a large expense/hassle compared to the power compacts. If you have a canopy to go over the tank, the power compacts will likely fit in it, but hanging pendant metal halide would require that you have an open top canopy.

Flourite can be hard to find if you do not have a LFS that carries a lot of Seachem plant products. The apistogramma.com store has a couple bags, but I do not know what the shipping would be. If you are on the east coast I would say the shipping is too high. If you are on the west coast it may be ok.

 

[tjudy]

:roll: Duh... I can see that you are from Houston if I look close enough...

Shipping on those two bags would be $15 to you in Houston. The bags are $13 each, so the total would be $41. If you cannot find a better price locally let me know.

 

[kretz11]

If I went with the PC's, I would have to get the 6X55 kit which would only give me 320 watts. Would that be enough for good plant growth? If I were to hang a 22in wide 400watt horizontal MH pendant over the center of my tank, would that light my entire tank??the ad claims that it will adequately light an area of 16-36sq.ft.


thanks
kevin

 

[tjudy]

16-36 is dependent upon how high up it hangs. I had a hanging horizontal fixture that I could not get at just the right hieght to cover the ends of the tank and not bleed over the front of the tank and shine on the floor. It was a display tank in a living room, and when the lights were off in the room the halides lighting the floor ruined the effect. I hade to buld a hood for the fixture that hung down far enough in front of it to shade the light shining on the floor. Instead of anice neat light fisture, I had a big box hanging over the tank.

I used to keep a well planted tank, including lots of aponogetons, barclaya and sword plants, that was (lwh) 72x18x22 using only 240 watts (6 40 watt flourescents). IMO 320 watts will work for you.

 

[Neil]

kretz11,

WELCOME TO THE FORUM

I have heard very good things about the flourite. If it is in your budget, I would add that to the substrate layering.

As far as the MH lighting goes, there is a few other considerations. If you got a dual 175W fixture, you would have more than enough light to grow any plant. As a matter of fact, you would have more than enough light to grow any just about any coral (requiring more light than plants in general). Here is the main consideration. If you go with 6x55W PC, in about a year to 18 months you will have to replace the bulbs. Same with MH. Although the dual MH will cost you more initially, you will save money in the long run (about $50 - $75/year). Costs more, but has more light and cheaper continued replacement costs.
However, the heighth is the other problem. If you place them too close to the tank (to avoid what Ted has mentioned) you temp will likely be too high. You can use fans (some MH units come with the fans built in) or you can make sure that the pre planning accounts for this issue in regards to the units focus. Good luck,
Neil

 

[farm41]

That's as good a deal on the flourite as anywhere, and better than most. My lfs sells it for $26 to most people, a few of us get a better deal. But only if it's for a trade.

 

[aspen]

imo, the 2 biggest reasons not to use metal halide are the noise fom the ballasts, and the intense heat from the lamps. they do provide the most efficient form of light, but i can't see putting all of that heat into my livingroom. there are some nice metal halide lamps available though. but, you will be more than happy with the growth from the power compacts.

as for substrate, there are lots of books written on this subject, and most of us have our own reasons for picking what we use. imo, plants will thrive in plain sand with some form of plant tabs, plus water column fert. with the light you plan on using, and the co2, you will not have any problems growing just about any plant you want. anything in addition that you want to add will only improve your growth. fwiw, i don't consider anerobic conditions in the substrate to be a problem, as long as there are roots throughout the whole substrate. roots will give off o2. then again, ted is a smart cookie.

the most important thing to choose now, is the right filtration. use a filter that is easy to clean, and that will not provide any surface agitation, like say a magnum or an eheim canister filter. ime, a magnum 350 will keep the water nice and clean, and would be perfect. 2 wouldn't be too much on a tank that size. don't underestimate the value of a co2 diffuser. you want to be able to get your co2 dissolved into the water efficiently. also, a solenoid is a really good idea. you don't need to add co2 at night. you may need to add o2 at night though, depending on fish load.

rick

 

[tjudy]

:lol:
The last time I was referred to as a 'cookie' I think she mentioned 'a few chips short and full of nuts'...

My fear associated with anaerobic conditions is the creation of hydrogen sulfide gas which can be toxic to fish. An indicator that those pockets are forming is if you see gas bubble release from the substrate when it is stirred up, and the gas smells like rotten eggs.

 

[kretz11]

has anyone tried laterite mixed with the bottom third of their gravel?.....that is what my lfs said that they use in their planted display tanks, which look awesome. They are also running under 2 watts per gallon with flourescents are are getting great plant growth(not just low light plants either) using CO2.


kevin

 

[tjudy]

Using CO2 allows plants to use light more efficiently; so in theory you can lower the light with CO2.

Flourite is kind of like a slow release laterite that never gets used up. Laterite can be a real mess. Laterite will also need to be replaced eventually.

 

[aspen]

i like to use stuff on the bottom that will look fine when you have ripped out your plants for the 100th time, and it doesn't look bad. that is the main reason i use plain sand. my planted tanks are in a constant state of motion. as plants grow and need to be pruned, often you want to tear out the base plant and re-plant the cuttings. this seems to re-new your plantings. also, when you buy a new plant, space needs to be made.

i originally used gravel with sand on the top, but very soon the gravel starts to come out, and i never liked the look of that.

while it has been said that rotting substrate smells like rotting eggs, i have often mixed up my sandy bottom, and have never had a problem with a dead substrate. i believe that this is due to the fact that the roots are giving off enough o2 to keep this from happening. my substrate does seem to bubble, when the plants are pearling, and this must be o2, not sulfer gas. (the fish seem to be able to live through it.) i am very careful about smelling all of my tanks. this is my first indication of anything amiss.

one thing is for sure though... a planted tank is a living thing. i believe that you need to keep it in optimum health at all times and be aware of the symptoms of tank that is not working for some reason. often this is shown by the fish, but also by the smell of the water. things happen very fast in a high light co2 added tank with a high fish load. it is like driving a car very fast, compared to lower light tank with no co2, and just a couple of easy fish. (fish that don't eat a lot.)

rick

 

[tjudy]

Not all gas coming from under the surface of the substrate will be bad gases. Fine substrates are harder to circulate water through. Tons of plants will definitely help prevent the problem. One of the worst cases of rot I have ever seen, however, was a large Aponogeton bulb planted in sand directly over a fertilizer tablet. The base of the bulb began to rot, but the plant was growing from the top of the bulb and was putting out a ton of roots. No body paid a lick of attention to it until one day the leaves from the plant were all at the surface of the tank. The bulb had rotted completely through. When the bulb was pulled out it literally disentigrated into a cloud of nasty smelling rotted organic matter. HUGE mess. That bulb was larger than a golf ball, and it totally rotted away.

Was it the sand? The fertilizer tablet directly under it? I don't know... but I am fairly certain that the anaerobic conditions that must have existed under that bulb due to a lack of water circulation had to have played a part in it.

 

[farm41]

MTS are a given in all my tanks, keeps the substrate churned up.

 

[aspen]

it seems i have been successful in curing that blight by quarentining new plants, and using lime it, before using these plants in my 35 gal. as has been pointed out many times, we all have our own ides, esp about snails. YUCK!!

matt, you may have a substrate that is aerated with snails, but then you have an intermediate species for parasite transfer and propogation, that will breed out of control and make your tank look like it is crawling with nasties. don't snails eat apisto eggs? i know they are filthy dirty animals that eat detritus and then poop it back out again.

jmo, rick