Starting an Apisto tank, looking for advice

[Psilocybin]

Ok, just for some background info, I have never kept apistogrammas before in my life. In fact I've only been keeping fish for 4 months now, I got thrown into the hobby by rescuing a lone electric yellow lab in a 5 gallon tank who would have been flushed if I had not stepped in. He is currently living the life in his own 30gallon tank with a harem of females, and he is doing great. I also keep a betta in a 2gallon tank, and I keep bumble bee gobies in a 5gallon tank. So I am fairly experienced in the fish keeping hobby.

Now I want to dabble into the world of Dwarf South American Cichlids. Tommorrow I am going to go check out a 20gallon long tank with hood, heater, and filter that is selling for 30dollars (I think it is a good deal, how about you?).

In the past few days I have been doing quite a bit of research online gathering information on Apistogrammas, and have decided that I want to keep Apistogramma cacatuoides (triple red apisto). I went to a LFS to check them out, and they had a good looking pair for 30dollars (too rich for my blood). So I went to aquabid.com and did some looking around. I found a breeder who lives 1 1/2 hours away from me selling excellent Apistogramma cacatuoides for 10dollars a pair (much better deal). Since he lives so close, there will be no ridiculous 40dollar shipping charges, because I can go pick them up myself (and we wont have to worry about any dead on arrivals). I plan on getting 1 male, and 3 females.

I've found my tank (still gotta go get it), and my fish. Now how should I go about getting the tank set up for it's future inhabitants? The local water has a ph of around 7.6, and a gh of 5, what should I use to buffer the water down to a more neutral ph of 7? I believe peat moss, driftwood, and certain leaves in the form of leaf litter are used to lower ph? correct? What would be my best bet for buffering the water?

I plan on transferring gravel from my cycled 30gallon tank (local river gravel about 1/4" in diameter on average) to the 20gallon tank. Fortunately I had an Under Gravel filter that was in the 30gallon (which I took out last month) so I have excess gravel to transfer over.

As far as decorations and caves, I'm probably going to set up lots of rock work for them, with a piece of driftwood, I also want to try keeping plants in this tank (i've tried without much luck in my 30gallon yellow lab tank, the labs always dig them up), but I am pretty inexperienced as far as plants go. So I probably will stick with plastic plants at first.

I am still unsure of what other fish would go well with my future Apistogramma cacatuoides. Do apistos do better in colonies or communities?

All critiques, criticisms, and advice are welcome, especially at this stage as I have not yet bought the tank or the fish, so I am flexible to change, and new ideas. This is a hefty post I know, but thanks for taking the time to read through it.

Psilocybin

 

[farm41]

Welcome Psilocybin,

Good to see a neighbor here.

Good choice on a first apisto, the cacs will do real well in your Corvallis water, no need for water modification. The leaf litter would be a good choice for the fish as that is what they have in the natural habitat. I would suggest oak leaves, they are a little acidic and will help lower the Ph, and they are still available here, collect quite a few, I gathered a bag full just for my fish.

 

[Neil]

Psilocybin,

WELCOME TO THE FORUM

The price on the tank is very good. Sounds like you have a good start. Cacatuoides in that tank would be fine in a harem, but there is a chance that the 2nd and 3rd cac female will be chased. Structure the tank well and place breeding caves at both ends. You will , at least, have the possibility of 2 females spawning without undo aggression.
Do as farm41 suggests and get some oak leaves or driftwood. That should be good enough for cacs. But keep the water clean via water changes and maintain the pH in the water you are changing. ie, oak leaves in a bucket of clean water for a day or 2.
You can add any number of dithers for this tank. Do a search on "dithers" here to get some ideas. I like pencils and tetras.
Good luck and keep us posted.
Neil

 

[Psilocybin]

aoubt the oak leaves... Do you guys simply go out and pluck them from the trees? So that the leaves are fresh. Or do you wait until fall for them all to fall off the tree? So that the leaves are crispy.

Oh, and thanks for the advice so far. Keep it coming

Psilocybin

 

[Psilocybin]

Cacatuoides in that tank would be fine in a harem, but there is a chance that the 2nd and 3rd cac female will be chased.

But getting a harem of 3 females, for just 1 male is a better idea than getting two pairs (ie 2 males, 2 females) right?

I learned through my lab tank to not have just 1 or 2 females for the male, because he chased them unrelentlessly. So now he has a harem of 5 females (there is also at least 1 other male that is less dominant) and his chasing is dispersed evenly among the harem (the dominant male is almost 3 inches long and very sexually frustrated, whereas the females are from 1 1/2" - 2" long, and are not ready to breed).

Back to my initial question, which would be better for my 20gallon tank? A male with a small harem, or two pairs of apistos (2 males, 2 females)?

Thanks for your patience,

Psilocybin

 

[kribs]

Hi I would go with a harem with a lot of places if you get 2 pairs in a 20 like one of my friend did there is a good chance that you will only be left with a trio as the dominant male will eventually kill the other one.

 

[Neil]

Back to my initial question, which would be better for my 20gallon tank? A male with a small harem, or two pairs of apistos (2 males, 2 females)?

A pair or trio would be my choice!

 

[Bissot_J]

Welcome Psilocybin,

Good to see a neighbor here.

Good choice on a first apisto, the cacs will do real well in your Corvallis water, no need for water modification. The leaf litter would be a good choice for the fish as that is what they have in the natural habitat. I would suggest oak leaves, they are a little acidic and will help lower the Ph, and they are still available here, collect quite a few, I gathered a bag full just for my fish.

lucky you
here in montreal we have at least 4 or 5 feet of snow on the ground
i have to wait to get any leaves
due to the weigth of leaves someone near me and with a nice weather , who have oak leaves , can send some to me ? heheh that would be nice.

Another question.
how often , do you chenge the litter ? if you change it ?

regards

 

[Bissot_J]

Now I want to dabble into the world of Dwarf South American Cichlids. Tommorrow I am going to go check out a 20gallon long tank with hood, heater, and filter that is selling for 30dollars (I think it is a good deal, how about you?).

Not bad

In the past few days I have been doing quite a bit of research online gathering information on Apistogrammas, and have decided that I want to keep Apistogramma cacatuoides (triple red apisto). I went to a LFS to check them out, and they had a good looking pair for 30dollars (too rich for my blood). So I went to aquabid.com and did some looking around. I found a breeder who lives 1 1/2 hours away from me selling excellent Apistogramma cacatuoides for 10dollars a pair (much better deal). Since he lives so close, there will be no ridiculous 40dollar shipping charges, because I can go pick them up myself (and we wont have to worry about any dead on arrivals). I plan on getting 1 male, and 3 females.

due to your location , you probably speak about dave

I've found my tank (still gotta go get it), and my fish. Now how should I go about getting the tank set up for it's future inhabitants? The local water has a ph of around 7.6, and a gh of 5, what should I use to buffer the water down to a more neutral ph of 7?

this water is not bad actually for cacatuoides
nothing to change

I believe peat moss, driftwood, and certain leaves in the form of leaf litter are used to lower ph? correct? What would be my best bet for buffering the water?

for sure leaf litter will be a excellent add-ons, and will probably annd a bonus to your water.

I am still unsure of what other fish would go well with my future Apistogramma cacatuoides. Do apistos do better in colonies or communities?

depend
you can add some tetra or cory

All critiques, criticisms, and advice are welcome, especially at this stage as I have not yet bought the tank or the fish, so I am flexible to change, and new ideas. This is a hefty post I know, but thanks for taking the time to read through it.

Psilocybin

welcome to the Dwarf world

 

[Psilocybin]

Again I want to thank everyone for all the helpful information, this board is great (when compared to some of the other ones with fish nazis on them).

Heh, your right Bissot, I was talking about dave =) I'm glad that there is a reputable breeder in my area. Oh and all the oak leaves around here are all soggy and wet (the rain has been relentless in the past few days).

I bought my tank yesterday, and I got hooked up. Its bigger than a 20gallon, does anyone know what the gallonage would be if the dimensions are 30" long X 12" wide X 18" tall? Well anyways I got the tank, hood, and whisper 60 filter (its for up to 60 gallons, although I wouldn't put it on a 60gallon tank) all for 25 bucks (I talked her down from 30 dollars because she didn't have a heater, and I got an extra 150watt heater already).

Now my plan is to take out half of the gravel from my established 30gallon, and add it to my apisto tank. Then I'm going to buy about 20 pounds of extremely small gravel to put in both tanks over the cycled gravel, so there will be about 3/4" of large cycled gravel, and 3/4" of small gravel on top in both tanks. Will the small gravel drown out the established bacteria in the larger gravel?

After that I'm going to go out to my property on the alsea river, and find some nice river rock to add to the tank

I'll keep you guys posted on the status of my tank and whatnot here in this topic.

Psilocybin

 

[Scooter]

Hey Psilocybin. Welcome aboard.

Triple red cacatuoides are really nice fish. Glad to see you doing a lot of research rather than relying solely on asking questions on a fish forum. Sounds like you've got a pretty good plan going.

I bought my tank yesterday, and I got hooked up. Its bigger than a 20gallon, does anyone know what the gallonage would be if the dimensions are 30" long X 12" wide X 18" tall?

Psilocybin

That would be a 29 gallon tank.

 

[Psilocybin]

sweet, thanks for the verification.

I got hooked up...29 gallons for 25 bucks, no complaints there. And it will be perfect for my upcoming fish =)

 

[aspen]

>>'Oh and all the oak leaves around here are all soggy and wet (the rain has been relentless in the past few days). '

boy i'm sorry you are getting so much rain. we have our oak leaves stored safely under 2 FEET OF SNOW!!! well, spring is right around the corner.

check the rock with acid. if it bubbles, don't use it, it will raise your ph.

>>'I'll keep you guys posted on the status of my tank and whatnot here in this topic.'

great!

as for the gravel, i wouldn't think the small stuff and the big stuff are not going to mix together. you might as well find gravel that will mix together and not look too bad, and mix it from the start.

rick

 

[Psilocybin]

OK, I got the fish this weekend. I went snowboarding in the Cascades, and stopped by the ApistoDave's house which is nearby and picked up the Cacatuoides.

Heh, ApistoDave is quite a character.... he showed me this pair of Nannacara Adoketa that are the only pair in the united states. His colleague in germany tried breeding them with no luck, so he sent a pair to ApistoDave and he was able to breed them (he wouldn't sell me any fry =P).

I went with 1 male, and 2 females (he reccomended 2 instead of 3), and they all survived the trip home just fine. I took half of the gravel from my 30gallon out today and put it in the 29gallon, I also took the rocks from my 30gallon and put them in the 29gallon (I figure it will help cycle quicker, also I put gravel in the filter).

Well, I tried taking pictures of Furious George (hes the male) and his girls, but they are all very shy at the moment and would not come out from hiding. So I've attached a picture of the tank as it is at the moment (I made a ghetto hood, that will serve me temporarily untill I buy a new bulb for the real hood).

Oh, and I learned how to pronounce Cacatoides thanks to ApistoDave, its Cak-A-Toy-Dees, heh I had no clue how to say it before he told me

Well nevermind, the picture wont load.

 

[Psilocybin]

Since I cant get pictures working on the forum, here is a link to the website they are posted on.

Enjoy

Psilocybin

 

[Psilocybin]

Since I cant get pictures working on the forum, here is a link to the website they are posted on.

Enjoy

http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?p=999&gid=1813221&uid=942132&members=1

Psilocybin

 

[Psilocybin]

Well Hot Damn,

Earlier I was cleaning my Apisto tank and poking around, when I noticed that 1 of my females was pretty yellow, and her lateral line was very diminshed (it wasn't as black as it usually is). I also make note that she is hanging around one specific shell constantly, so I flipped over the shell and......

There are EGGS =)

This is my first batch of fry since I have begun keeping fish. I've had the trio of fish since saturday March 15th, and its March 26th as I write this, they get busy FAST.

A friend of mine gave me a 10gallon tank yesterday (no filter, hood, or heater), but luckily I have a working hood and heater already, so all I really need is a filter. Due to budget constraints I am considering buying an UnderGravel filter (but I really don't like them), will this be a problem with the fry? I've read stories of fry hiding under the plate, also I have read stories of fry being sucked up filter intake tubes. I'm probably going to buy an UG filter.

Here is my idea, get the 10gallon setup as soon as possible, then transfer the shell with the eggs, and the mama to my 10gallon tank. That way she can raise them in peace, she wont have to worry about my male harassing her, and there will be less chance of the fry being eaten. Would it be a better idea to transfer only the shell with eggs? Should I just let them be raised in the main tank (but they'll probably all perish), so that I can be ready for the next batch?

Oh, and here are the water parameters:
Tank - 29gallon Apistogramma tank
Inhabitants - Three Apistogramma cacatuoides (1 male, 2 female), 1 bristlenose pleco, and 1 ramshorn snail
Parameters - 7.6ph, 6gh, 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, 74*f

ApistoDave, I can't thank you enough for such fine quality fish, they all survived the trip to their new home, and now 11 days later they have already spawned. And they are great to watch... such personality! Now the male is chasing the other female (who hasn't laid eggs yet) in an attempt to get her to mate. Its hilarious (at least to me).

Any and all general advice or advice from experience is welcomed.

Thanks,

Psilocybin

 

[farm41]

Psilocybin,

That's great news for you. If you remove the female with her fry, you would want to fill the 10g tank with water from your 29g. I would use a sponge filter in that tank. It is a very good filter and real easy to clean. Many of us use the sponge type of filter in fry tanks, that way the bottom of the tank can be kept bare and clean. I like to use the hydro sponge 3 filter $6.49 at Big Als and it only takes a small air pump to operate it. Or if you can't wait, Animal House has those filters.

 

[aspen]

i took the advice of z-man, and use corner box flters in my bare apisto tanks.

rick

 

[farm41]

Rick

Why do you like the corner box filters apposed to sponge filters?