Species and sex id ?

[Frank Hättich]

I'm very confused - i though the caudal spot was the spot just before the tail as shown in B3.jpg above. Your picture shows a belly picture so which spot are you calling a caudal spot ?
--
update: I see i need to look at the belly to see if there is a spot near the head.

Yes the caudal spot is the one right in front of the caudal fin. I can see it in your pictures but not it's exact shape. The lateral spot is the one on the side of the body. As I said, if your fish never show two such side spots they are almost certainly wolli.

 

[anewbie]

Yes the caudal spot is the one right in front of the caudal fin. I can see it in your pictures but not it's exact shape. The lateral spot is the one on the side of the body. As I said, if your fish never show two such side spots they are almost certainly wolli.

Ok thanks. Was worried they were one of the related species - well not really worried but though they might be. I hope over time they get a little less timid. It took the a. ladisalo (or the ones sold as ladisalo) almost no time to be more assertive. Even the ones with the larger i. bimaculata stopped hiding completely now that they figured out the bimaculata are harmless (and yes i do have a plan if conflict occur).

 

[Mike Wise]

Your females look like A. wolli that I have. Some of my females will have one lateral spot only on 1 side, probably due to inbreeding. I don't use these 'odd' females in species-maintenance. I have never seen any A. wolli females with 2 spots on one side. Size-wise, yes I have had females ~1"/2.5cm SL breed in my grow-out tanks. I don't try to save these fry, but I do try to see which male the female bonds to. These are more likely to be successful spawners when put together in a breeding tank.

 

[anewbie]

Your females look like A. wolli that I have. Some of my females will have one lateral spot only on 1 side, probably due to inbreeding. I don't use these 'odd' females in species-maintenance. I have never seen any A. wolli females with 2 spots on one side. Size-wise, yes I have had females ~1"/2.5cm SL breed in my grow-out tanks. I don't try to save these fry, but I do try to see which male the female bonds to. These are more likely to be successful spawners when put together in a breeding tank.

Ok thanks.

The female breeding didn't shock me i guess but the male being nearly the same size did - that is i thought he would be at least 1.5 to 1.75 inches before he was ready to breed. Also i don't see any bonding behavior as i've already see with the a. ladislao - he was mostly hanging out with the other male on the other side of the aquarium (standard 29).

Anyway i'm feeding them some bbs but i don't expect the frys to do well and all four 'adults' continue to mostly stay out of sight.

 

[Mike Wise]

Honestly, size is less important than age.

 

[anewbie]

@Frank Hättich @Mike Wise

Is this picture clear enough to identify specific species; also does the male look a bit sunken or off? He is friendly enough but getting him to sit still is a bit difficult. I can at least get him to rotate a bit by moving my finger:

(same fish):

This is one of the fishes shown at the start of the thread; so he has grown a bit and is colouring up nicely. 'Cept for some legacy guppies he mostly has a 40B with a female to themselves; well there is also a couple of swordtails but i hope to eventually remove them. Also there appears to be a lot of guppy and swordtail frys - which is why i guess both he and female spend a lot of time near the top.

 

[Frank Hättich]

Is this picture clear enough to identify specific species; also does the male look a bit sunken or off?

According to the best of my knowledge, the only of the Ladislao-related species in which males show a caudal pattern but no red markings on the head is A. sp. Ladislao 2. However, this "knowledge" is merely based on a view pictures of each of the species/forms. Moreover, your fish might just be a less colorful specimen of one of the species/forms with red markings or don't (yet) show them for some other reason. To me he looks very slender.

 

[anewbie]

According to the best of my knowledge, the only of the Ladislao-related species in which males show a caudal pattern but no red markings on the head is A. sp. Ladislao 2. However, this "knowledge" is merely based on a view pictures of each of the species/forms. Moreover, your fish might just be a less colorful specimen of one of the species/forms with red markings or don't (yet) show them for some other reason. To me he looks very slender.

Do you think he has parasite or just needs more food? If parasite any suggested treatment? He seems to eat plenty; and the female is in good shape (if parasite wouldn't she also have parasite?); hum... i never understand these things well. Maybe i should try giving him some chocolate; it works well on humans.

btw he is just colouring up; so maybe he'll develop more red later on - i'll try again in a few months if he changes.

Last but least are all these Ladislao the same species with different colour form or are they just same name given to random species and dna analysis would be require to determine if they are different species ?

 

[Frank Hättich]

Do you think he has parasite or just needs more food? If parasite any suggested treatment? He seems to eat plenty; and the female is in good shape (if parasite wouldn't she also have parasite?); hum... i never understand these things well. Maybe i should try giving him some chocolate; it works well on humans.

He doesn't look underfed or ill to me. It just seems that he has a slender body and in relation to it a large head.

Last but least are all these Ladislao the same species with different colour form or are they just same name given to random species and dna analysis would be require to determine if they are different species ?

The different forms look a bit different in regard to coloration and/or caudal pattern and are from different catch locations. This suggests that they are different species, but without DNA analysis we can't be 100% sure about this.

 

[Mike Wise]

For me both pictures are very poor. Both distort the appearance of the body. It would be better to see photos of the fish perpendicular to the flanks.

 

[anewbie]

For me both pictures are very poor. Both distort the appearance of the body. It would be better to see photos of the fish perpendicular to the flanks.

These aren't great either but maybe one is useful:

I actually have two sets the picture of the other set weren't any better - i'll keep trying during the week and only post if get something substantially better. Will images of the female help much ?

 

[anewbie]

@Mike Wise is this better ? I believe this is either a female or possibly sub-dominant male (i had always thought it was a female but it has a bit more colour; what is happening is in one hand i'm holding a mirror and s/he is flaring at it while in the other hand i try to get the phone to focus and take a picture. Unfortunately the other fish ignores himself when i try the same trick. There is a third fish in there that is 99% sure is a female:

 

[Mike Wise]

Definitely better, but still pointing the lens downward, since parts of both eyes are visible. I would try taking the picture straight on or even from a slightly lower angle. Your fish looks like a female to me. How large is the fish?

 

[anewbie]

Definitely better, but still pointing the lens downward, since parts of both eyes are visible. I would try taking the picture straight on or even from a slightly lower angle. Your fish looks like a female to me. How large is the fish?

Any of these ok? The females are approx 1 inch give or take up to 1/4. Also the 2nd 'female' has 3 lateral dot and is more slim/elongated ratio

(i realize they can control the markings). I did think the pictured fish a female until i saw more colour hinting in the picture.

My 2nd male with the complement of females is in the IB tank and that one has a lot more tannis. He is better proportions to this male.

 

[Mike Wise]

The male photos look like my A. wolli and seem normal (not overly thin) to me. If only ~1"/2.5cm they could be either sex.

 

[anewbie]

Interesting; i wonder if the seller got the species crossed; I have the other fishes in another aquarium but they have shown no colouring ?yet?. The pictured male is somewhere between 1.5 and 2 inches; never measured but substantially larger than the female. I am also concern that i have two species in the tank - the pictured female 2 posts above is quite a bit different than the other female - the other female shows 3 lateral dots; do you recall what a wolli female looks like. Looking at Tom's page some have a dot on the tail and others do not? hum... not sure.

He is sending a few more left over a. ladisalo with some other fishes i ordered; but not sure what to do with them now - don't really want to mix wolli with ladisalo.

The female i pictured does it look like a wolli female or could it be another nijjensi complex female ?

Tom's first female picture is close to the other female in the 40b; but then the other females look different than it - note the cheek marks missing as well as some have dot in the middle instead of three spread across.

@Mike Wise

 

[Frank Hättich]

I agree with Mike that the body shape of the male looks normal on the latest pictures.
However, unlike Mike, I'm sure that it's not A. wolli (but rather one of the Ladislao forms). E.g. in A. wolli the red seams in the caudal fin are more narrow and are separated from the edges of the fin by a narrow transparent area as shown in this picture:

From the pictures of the supposed female I can't for sure tell sex nor species.

 

[anewbie]

I agree with Mike that the body shape of the male looks normal on the latest pictures.
However, unlike Mike, I'm sure that it's not A. wolli (but rather one of the Ladislao forms). E.g. in A. wolli the red seams in the caudal fin are more narrow and are separated from the edges of the fin by a narrow transparent area as shown in this picture:

View attachment 15121

From the pictures of the supposed female I can't for sure tell sex nor species.

This is based off of the photo's on @Tom C page; not all the males are clear but there seems to be a black spot at the base of the tail that all of his fishes have that mine is missing.

 

[Frank Hättich]

This is based off of the photo's on @Tom C page; not all the males are clear but there seems to be a black spot at the base of the tail that all of his fishes have that mine is missing.

What is based on what photos on Tom's site? I was just commenting on what Mike said about your male.

 

[anewbie]

What is based on what photos on Tom's site? I was just commenting on what Mike said about your male.

My comments about black spot locations are based off of comparing the photo i provided with the images on Tom's site.



This is the other species that is either ladisalo or wolli (I thought they were wolli); i believe it is a male and is approx 1 inch in size. The female look very much like the female picture #6 on tom's site with 3 black lateral spots. She has fry so someone fertilize them. there is a 3rd yellow fish that i almost never see.