Should Apisto Agassizii be kept in threes?

[agassizii luv4ever]

I was going to pair a male with a female, but i went to a local fish store and they were selling fire red tail agassizii pairs, got one and also put my original female agassizi. This should divert the attention from one female to another or is this not recommended keeping them in threes? (P.S ima put a picture tmrw)

 

[MacZ]

It all depends on the dimensions of your tank and the structure, i.e. sight breaks from wood and rocks.

In general Apistogramma neither form fixed pairs nor is a so-called harem necessary. Males chase females from their territory which are not ready to breed. As the space in a fish tank is limited, this might end up in massive harrassment and stress-related deaths. Additionally the females can be rough (sometimes significantly more brutal than the males) among each other. So while you might divert the male's attention, it might very well end up in two fish tagteaming the third.

So whenever you keep both sexes you should be able to move fish between tanks to prevent.

 

[anewbie]

Some claim that in a small container like an aquarium having 2 female will reduce the stress on a single female as there are more targets; but i've found it make things worse since there is the potential for the two females to fight; though i have to admit it depends a lot on the species, how the aquarium is scaped and size of the aquarium. Certainly in my 40b and 65s i've been able to create sufficiently larger areas that both male and females can coexist with minimal friction but again it depends on the species as some are more passive or will accept smaller territories than others.

 

[agassizii luv4ever]

It all depends on the dimensions of your tank and the structure, i.e. sight breaks from wood and rocks.

In general Apistogramma neither form fixed pairs nor is a so-called harem necessary. Males chase females from their territory which are not ready to breed. As the space in a fish tank is limited, this might end up in massive harrassment and stress-related deaths. Additionally the females can be rough (sometimes significantly more brutal than the males) among each other. So while you might divert the male's attention, it might very well end up in two fish tagteaming the third.

So whenever you keep both sexes you should be able to move fish between tanks to prevent.

mines a bright orange ish agassizi male with two females, one female might be wild caught looks grey wile the pari i bought with the male is yellowish

 

[MacZ]

Ok, I'll be explicit: To help you out we'd need to know the tank size (dimensions, not volume) and pictures of the tank as a whole and the fish in particular. Otherwise there's no way we can help you.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

but i've found it make things worse since there is the potential for the two females to fight

Two females has always been a recipe for disaster with me as well.

I'll be explicit: To help you out we'd need to know the tank size (dimensions, not volume) and pictures of the tank as a whole and the fish in particular

It will tell us a lot more <"https://apistogramma.com/forum/threads/sexing-please.23154/#post-107826">.

cheers Darrel

 

[Ben Rhau]

I've kept trios of apistos (not agassizii) in a 20-long that was planted and scaped such that you could not see the other side of the aquarium either from the front or from either side. In my experience, having a third fish present makes the social dynamic more complicated (not necessarily better or worse).

At times, I've seen the subdominant female being bullied by the other two. I had to make sure she got her fair share of food and was able to remove a fish when necessary. I also saw back-to-back breeding with both fish, which I wasn't really crazy about managing and keeping track of. I personally prefer having one pair and then removing the male after they breed.

So it can work... I wouldn't assume it would be easier, just a different set of circumstances to deal with.

 

[anewbie]

I al

I've kept trios of apistos (not agassizii) in a 20-long that was planted and scaped such that you could not see the other side of the aquarium either from the front or from either side. In my experience, having a third fish present makes the social dynamic more complicated (not necessarily better or worse).

At times, I've seen the subdominant female being bullied by the other two. I had to make sure she got her fair share of food and was able to remove a fish when necessary. I also saw back-to-back breeding with both fish, which I wasn't really crazy about managing and keeping track of. I personally prefer having one pair and then removing the male after they breed.

So it can work... I wouldn't assume it would be easier, just a different set of circumstances to deal with.

What species; i also want to comment that the species here makes a huge difference. I was able to keep 4 ortegai in a 65 (1m 3f) and all 3f had distinct territories and bred at the same time); however a 65 (18x48) is a lot larger than a 20 long (12x30); i found my male agassizi fairly aggressive but never tried a trio so can't comment first hand with that species. With winkelfleck the 2 females did fight but seemed to not do too much damage though one did retreat to the top. a year later they are still alive and i did move them into a 100 where both can have their own territories.

My point is when one gives experience it is also helpful to include species and talk about inter and intra species aggression.

 

[Ben Rhau]

Sure-- I wasn't making a claim about whether or not there would be aggression with this species or all species. Just that adding an additional female introduces variables that are often not taken into account when the general advice is given to keep trios to avoid too much attention/stress on one female.

The trios I kept were cacatuoides, cf. resticulosa and "Alto Tapiche." The resticulosa are of the regani lineage and relatively docile. Still, I had intervene when the subdominant female was pushed around. It didn't always happen, but occasionally it was a problem. The altos were definitely more aggressive generally, and I had to separate them several times, even when it was just a pair. With the cacs, I was new to apistos, so I introduced a female without rescaping the tank and she was killed immediately.

Observed behavior can also depend on individual personalities and (as others have noted) context and structure of the tank. So I'm careful not to make generalizations about whether one "should" or "shouldn't" keep a trio. That said, I've also had such experiences in other genuses (e.g. killifish) where I read advice that a trio would be less stressful on a female than a pair. Could be true sometimes, but when I try it I always have to pay a lot of attention to the subdominant female. Otherwise, she might starve to death or be killed.