Saying hello

[Phyrex]

Hi all,

I've just signed up and I though I would introduce myself before reading all there is on this forum.

I'm living in Vancouver, Canada but am originally from the Netherlands. I currently only have 2 bettas but have been around aquariums all my life since my dad's aquariums had pretty much taken over the house when growing up. He's had pretty much everything you can think of and has been successful at it too. I recall having a small community tank with guppies, platys, black mollies, swordtails etc in my room when I was younger and after that the tank was converted to house some neon tetras and a pair of pelvicachromis pulcher (or kersenbuik) that I (mostly my dad) managed to get to breed.

Even though I've been around aquariums all my life I'm not really versed in all the special water quality checking things and the english names of the fish and plants. That's where you guys come in I'm thinking of starting a small apisto biotope with 2 pairs of apistos a small shoal of neon tetras and a bunch of corydoras. I'm not entirely sure how many tetras would be needed to create the shoaling behaviour or how many corys would be appropriate for 2 pairs of apistos? I'm leaning towards cacatuoides and ramirezi for the cichlids but I'm not sure how big/small the tank should be in order for the aformentioned fish to mature and live properly? or how long the tank has to marinate to introduce the first fish?

Cheers,
Phyex

 

[dw1305]

Welcome

Hi Phyrex,
Welcome aboard, I've found this site really useful, posters like our moderators Mike Wise, Ted Judy etc really are the all time greats of the Dwarf Cichlid world.

I'd suggest a trawl through the archive, have a search on "Corydoras", "dithers" "books" etc. and you should find what you are looking for.

I'd also suggest having a look at Bob Wiltshire's (ApistoBob) Web site. It has really useful advice for habitat, water etc. and Bob's practical experience of keeping many dwarf cichlids.

<http://www.dwarfcichlid.com/index.php>

cheers Darrel (in Bath, UK)

 

[tjudy]

Mike Wise, Ted Judy etc really are the all time greats of the Dwarf Cichlid world

:redface: now that's embarrasing

Welcome to the forum...

There are many many many better dwarf cichlid aquarists than me, but I try. Maybe in 30 years will I deserve distinction... but thank you.

 

[Phyrex]

Thanks Darrel and Ted. After reading more I guess I shouldn't go with the tetras and corys since the tetras eat the fry and the corys take up the same space in the tank. I guess I'll go with a pure caca breeding tank set up.

 

[tjudy]

I like pencilfish or livebearers as dithers. I do not think that there is such a thing as a fish that will never eat fry, but parents should be able to protect them to some extent. Very small tetras, danios and rasboras should not be much of a threat.

 

[Phyrex]

I like the look of the cardinal tetras so I guess I'll try to find some smaller ones during the setup of the tank. I guess guppies would be nice too since they have some colour.

Would 2F1M caca, 6 cardinals, and 1-2 otos work in 20 gallon? Or would I be better off starting with 6 cacatuoides in 20 gallon in order to let them pair up themselves?

 

[dw1305]

stocking

Hi Phyrex,
Ted is just being modest.

I think you will be OK with 1m & 2 or 3f cacatuoides. Because they are fairly mellow for Cichlids, and harem breeders, the male is not likely to kill the female if she isn't ready to spawn, also because they don't pair you don't get a bonded pair trying to eliminate all other fish.

Not sure about the Cardinals, they are a bit bottom orientated. I use Black Neons as dithers with A. cacatuoides, they are easy to obtain, and they colour up well in softer water. They also tend to stay high up in the water column.

Personally I like frequent water changes, lots of live food, heavy planting, a lot of cover and very well established tanks, (I'd follow ApistoBobs suggestions). I don't add any fish until the tank has been set up for several months, (although this is probably bit excessive).

Otocinclus are great tank mates, I'd suggest buying 4 or 5 (as they are very social for Loricariids), but with the proviso that they are not easy fish to care for, they need careful selection at the LFS. In the aquarium the want a mature set up, plants, high quality water and additional feeding with vegetables.

cheers Darrel

 

[Phyrex]

I think I'm going with a 20 gallon setup with moss covered bogwood, a bunch of caves (coconuts or terracotta pots/trays), some other plants like java fern or pygmy chain sword, and some open space with flat stones in case I want any rams if there is only one pair of cacas that decides to like each other. I'm looking at a sponge filter over a power filter but I'm not sure if that would be sufficient for a 20 gallon.

For fish I'm looking at probably 5-6 cacatuoides 2M 3-4F if possible. For dither fish I have it narrowed down to the following that I like and that stay fairly small: black neon tetra, flag tetra, rose tetra, red phantom tetra, and dwarf pencilfish. A shoal of 6-8 will probably do nicely.

Assuming that these are all mature sizes would I have any space left for anything else? I don't see myself setting up any special fry tanks but I would like to try to get them to breed and raise some fry inside the tank. Would it be too crowded to do this? If so, would not having any dither fish solve this problem, or is 20 gallon just too small to raise the fry in together with the 5 mature cacatuoides?

Thanks.

 

[dw1305]

More than one male

Hi Phyrex,
Sounds good, if you are going to try 2 males you'll need to buy sub-adult and grow them up together. I've never had any success with 2 adult male Apistogramma and females (other than if you like a lot of lip locking and/or 1 male that spends it's entire life cowering amongst the Ceratopteris (Floating Fern) in the top corner of the tank), but I have had 6 young adult males on their own in a fairly small tank successfully (but short time scale, pre-sale).

One male is fine with as many females as you like, the females will be coloured up all the time (very smart, yellow and black fins), they will interact with one another (and steal fry from each other) and your male will constantly be out and about, his colour and fins up, trying to impress the ladies.

I use a "powerhead" sponge filter. I've settled on "Maxijet" (probably a 600, or even better 2 x 400s for this tank). I put a piece of "food grade" tubing over the intake, so that the tubing reaches the bottom of the tank, when the power head is positioned with it's outflow just below the water level. I cork the end, and silicon a small piece of slate over the end of the tube, and then punch lots of holes in the bottom third of the tube (you can use a drill or a red hot nail etc). If your not sure what it should look like google "Huey Hung" filter.

For the sponge I've been using a large filter sponge that I buy from the local "Koi carp" place (they are 12" by 4", and a have a hole in the middle that goes 3/4 of the way through). For a tank that is 12" or 15" high that does 2 or 3 filters. Recently however I've been buying the large coarse pp10 filter sheets (also from the local Koi place, but cheaper on the internet) and wrapping them around the tubing before cable tieing them on. I like this because it's a more flexible arrangement. These filters are silent unless you have the venturi on. This gives you a lot of filtration for very little money, and it's very low maintenance (I squeeze the sponge out every couple of months). I don't find the filters too obvious because I keep very weedy tanks, when the tank was first set up I screened it with some wood.

The best filter I've ever built was a wet/dry above tank planted filter made of a length of guttering, filled with hydroleca and the plants planted in rock wool, it was great but not very aesthetic, and my wife hated the constant noise of running water.

I wouldn't try and keep Rams as well, I don't think the tank is big enough.
One type of tetra is good, I'd go with the Black Neons or Pencils, but there is no harm in trying something else. Definitely have the Java Fern and Dwarf Swords, also some floating plants, I like the ferns, Salvinia and Ceratopteris, but any will do, I like the lots of "plants jungle", but other members successfully keep sparse plantings (just Java moss) or beautiful aquascapes, (have a look through Ed Seeley's postings). I also have MTS in all my tanks.

I'd also start some live food cultures, my choice would be Grindal, Red and Micro worms (have a look at the postings)

Once the tank is set up, I change the water 10% a day, but I don't do any other regular maintenance, once the biofilm and plants are fully established I think you should get fry successfully raising themselves.

cheers Darrel

 

[Phyrex]

Thanks Darrel.

Wouldn't a single power filter be better than having 2 sponge filters. I'm just worried the tank is going to look cluttered. I just chose the sponge originally because it increases the oxygen in the water (because of the bubbling I thought). I might go with an AquaClear 20 or so instead of 2 spong filters. Do I need a separate bubble stone if I go with a power filter?

Isn't it hard to buy 1M 3F cacas when they're still young, I thought it would be hard to see which is male and which is female? The majority of articles I've read had people buying 6 younger cacas and see which pair up when they mature and then use that pair to breed or just keep. Would you recomment getting (assuming the fry will be left in the tank for all options):
1: 6 cacas and nothing else
2: 1M 3F cacas and 6-8 black neon tetras
3: 1M1F caca, 1M1F ram

I like a heavily planted tank so please keep this in mind for the options above.

The ram comment before was in case there is only one pair of cacatuoides that like each other so I'll remove the others and just have a single pair of cacas and a single pair of rams (like option 3 above).

What is MTS?

 

[dw1305]

filters

Hi Phyrex,
It is the surface movement that increases the O2 content of the water, its mainly the bubbles breaking the surface from the pump that increase the aeration not the O2 diffusing from the bubbles. The best filters for aeration are wet dry trickles because the water becomes oxygenated by diffusion during the dry part of the filter process. The suggestion for two powerheads as filters is it gives you a spare filter sponge for another tank and if one breaks down you still have the other one. Bubbling air filters work in UGF uplift tube, but otherwise they are for the owner, not the fish.

You may struggle to pick up a trio rather than a pair from an LFS, infact I believe that some only sell males. They are sexable as sub-adult, have a search on this forum for sexing juveniles. I'd go with just the A. cacatuoides and the dithers, I don't think you have enough bottom area for 2 different dwarf cichlids. I'd ask other members in your area for suggestions of good LFS, or hobbyists who post.

MTS - sorry Malaysian Trumpet Snail.

cheers Darrel

 

[Phyrex]

So with 5-6 cacas and 8 black neon tetras I can still leave the fry in the 20 gallon tank and hope that some will survive (given that they have enough spots to hide? Or should I be removing any additional male cacas that don't seem to pair up in the end? How old (large) should the cacas be when I get them?

 

[dw1305]

2 males

Hi Phyrex,
I think you will end up with one dominant male whatever happens, and the lives of the other males will be any combination of short, bloody and uncomfortable.

Fry survival tends to be poorer when you have more than 3 females as the combination of more big mouths and fry of different sizes tends to reduce survival.

The ones you buy here in the LFS are sub-adult, but sexable.
The LFS that has my "spares" (Parkers in Bristol at present), wants them as soon as the males begin to show colour (so inch and half, inch and 3/4's.)

They grow quite quickly.

cheers Darrel

 

[dw1305]

Size and "Vancouver" thread

Hi all,
Should have said lengths were t.l. (total length).

Hi Phyrex, have you seen the other Vancouver fish thread?
<http://www.forum.apistogramma.com/showthread.php?p=47866#post47866>

cheers Darrel

 

[Phyrex]

Thanks Darrel,

I'm probably getting 1M 2/3F or just a pair given it's hard to have 2M in a tank to get along.

Are cardinal or neon tetra always fry eaters regardless of their size and maturity?

 

[dw1305]

Neon/Cardinal Tetra

Hi Phyrex,
I think they probably will be because they are feed singly low down in the water column. It may depend on how protective your female is, but if she is very protective, and the tetras stay near the bottom, fatalities are quite likely.

People like Pencils, "Splash" tetras, Hatchets etc because they are more orientated to the top of the tank, and have small mouths. I like Black Neons with A. cacatuoides because they are robust enough to act as target fish as well as dithers, although they do pick off the odd fry.

cheers Darrel