pyrrhulina australis breeding

[Dravik2]

hey everybody

I'v wanted these fish for a long time and when i was browsing the net i found an rare fish importer in germany
who had these fish imported from paraguay for the firts time since years in (europe as var as i know).
so i contacted them an asked if they suppleyed to stores in the netherlands and they did .
so i contacted the store in the nethelands and they ordered them for me (ps i had to travel 210KM for the fish but it was worth it).
so since a few months i'v got some wild caught pyrrhulina australis
and at this moment one of the females has got a leave full of eggs which she is protecting and fanning al the time.
since i can find almost nothing on te web about these fish i thought it was a good idee to ask some questions here since there obviously is a lot of knowledge on this forum.

i'v got the following questions
1 how long will a female protect here eggs/fry?
2 should i get the leaf and get it into a separate tank?
3 when should i start feeding them (i have some Turbatrix aceti and i wil grow some brine shrimp since i'v also got borrelli fry at this moment)

some info regading my tank
it's a 120*40*40cm tank
with
7 pyrrhulina australis
3 a. borelli (1m/2f)
and a few asollene spixi

water values are
ph 7
kh 4
gh 6
no2 0

regards Dravik2

 

[Dravik2]

here's a short video of my pyrrhulina australis with eggs

 

[Tom C]

In Pyrrhulina, it's normally the male who guards the eggs:
(All photos are of Pyrrhulina zigzag, but I've done and seen the same with Pyrrhulina australis)

He will do so as long as there are something on the leaf. When the eggs start hatching, and become wrigglers/larvae, some of them will fall off the leaf. He will then not worry more about them (but the Apistogramma borellii will love them ).
The fry will soon leave the leaf and move to just beneath the surface.

and after a short while be free swimming. The male will not guard anything outside the leaf.

At this stage, the fry will need food immediately. The first time very small food; I give mine infusoria / Paramecium the first weeks.
If you just leave them in the tank, some of them will probably survive (if you have some floating plants where they can hide and find small microorganisms), and you will probably see some of them just beneath the surface.
If you take the leaf out to another tank, before the eggs hatch, you'll get many fry, given you provide them with sufficient and small enough food the first time.

I wish you good luck with them!

 

[Dravik2]

thanks for your input i think i will let this first try go the natural way so i'll just leave them in the main tank
if they lay eggs agian i wil try and raise them in a seperate tank maybe i will even try to do a real atempt at breeding them by setting up a tank just for the pyrrhulina
beautiful fish by the way

 

[rr16]

Good luck, I'm hoping my P. cf. brevis spawn soon. Keep us updated on how you go on.

 

[Dravik2]

after 2 days the eggs are gone i think they where eaten by the other fish
due to the fact that the male didn't protect them with as much care as the first day but i'm having good hope they will spawn again very soon

 

[rr16]

They may have hatched and moved away/been eaten. My Copella compta eggs hatch usually within 24-48 hours at approx. 76F.

 

[Dravik2]

if i would like to do a real atempt to breed these fish? what would be the best way to do this?
i have a 60*30*30cm tank i could use if this is big enough.
i have a RO unit to get the water values between
gh 0-2
kh 0-3
ph 6.0-6.5
temperature 25-26C

offcourse i will feed them varied live foods (black and white mosquito larve, brine shrimp, daphnia)
and frozen food (daphnia and krill)
at this moment they are already looking nice and well fed.
are there specific thing to get them to lay there eggs like a water change with cooler water or somthing like that?
are there things i miss?
or things i'm thinking wrong about such as the water values or anything ells

greeting Dravik2

 

[Dravik2]

nobody any comments or tips ??

 

[rr16]

Sorry, I haven't bred this genus before. You could try some of the things TomC does with Copella. It's mentioned in a splash tetra thread somewhere on here.

 

[rr16]

Thinking about it though - do as you have been doing as they spawned already. What type of leaf was it, where abouts vertically in the aquarium was it? You could then either remove the leaf once they've laid, hatch the fry in a tub and then transfer them to a grow out tank, or, use a silk/plastic plant or plant pot bases or leaf litter as objects for them to spawn on, then remove them and hatch them as above. It works for me with Copella compta and Copella arnoldi.

 

[Dravik2]

thanks i'll try de floating basket idee also makes it easy to place them in a grow out tank

 

[Dravik2]

hey all

sad enough my australis haven't spawn again and i'f lost 1 fish
some of my plants died so the fish became a bit shy (i'v had the same probleme when the fish came in from the store)
i'v placed a group of 22 hyphessobrycon eques since these fish aren't shy even the opposite is true
now the pyrrhulina are no longer shy since they feel save with the fish swimming around

as far as i can see i'v got 5F and 1M but i'm not sure so could someone try and explane the difference between the male and female of this species

thanks in advance

 

[Tom C]

Pyrrhulina australis has a sexual dimorphism and a dichromatism:

- the males are larger and slightly slimmer
- the ventral fins in adult males are larger, almost square, while the females' are rounded
- the fin rays in the anal fin of the males are slightly thickened (similar to that in some Nannostomus species)
- The ventral and anal fins of males (might) show black edges. Clearest seen when the fish is preserved in alcohol. In some populations this is easy to observe even on live fish, in other populations there is apparently no black edges (that could be observed).
(- there are also some differences in dentation, but this is difficult to observe on live fish)

One of my males Pyrrhulina australis guarding eggs:

I'm afraid your Serpae tetras will eat every fry of any spawning...

I wish you good luck!


.

 

[Dravik2]

at this moment as it's winter the temperature is down to about 17/18 degrees.
so at this moment it is quite calm regarding the breeding atempt, but i've watched my fish a lot lately and at this time i think i've got 4 males and 2 females but i'm not quite sure.
the difference i see between these fish is 4 of them have a litte orange stripe and a litte black at the bottem edge off their anal fin
the ventral fins is hard to see as they swim around al the time
i might setup a breeding tank for the dominant male and the 2 females when the temperture is going up this spring/summer.
or if they get in breedingmood earlier i will put the eggs in a breeding tank