Put young cacatoudes and aggies together?

[filio]

Hello.
Let me explain my situation first. I have a 120l community tank with apistos. I use a 30l breeding tank. Currently I have a pair of cacatuoides defending a bunch of babies in the community tank. They've been doing this for 10 days now, against a bunch of neon tetras and cory cats. Quite efficiently I would say. The tank is well planted and I put some java moss for more protection. This morning I saw the pair of aggies in the breeding tank have fry. I took out the male right away. The female was beating him mercilesly. Now he is back in the community tank. And finally here is my question. Do you think in a week or 2 I can put the young cacies in the breeding tank, together with the aggies and their mother? Is the mother to kill them instantly, or will she take care of them along with her own babies? I know in 2 weeks the cacatuoides parenst will no longer be able to keep the youngsters together, and the tetras will hunt them down. I'm just trying to save a s many as possible. No room for more tanks

 

[Mike Wise]

You need to read Koslowski's (2002) experiments on fry acceptance. Briefly, if fry are removed from the mother and then later put back without being re-introduced over a period of a few hours, she often does not recognize them as her own. If fry are introduced to a female (not the mother) over a period of a few hours, she might accecpt them as her own - but if they are very different in size, she will try to protect her own fry.

I think that you are going to have to accept that a large numer of the fry in the community tank will be eaten. If put in the breeding tank with a mother with fry - and not adequately introduced - you will lose them, too. If you slowly introduce the fry to the mother in the breeding tank, there is a chance that she will accept the fry. If they are accepted and large enough to eat the smaller fry, they will eat the smaller fry. Also realize that a 30 L breeding tank is too small to raise more than a few fry.

 

[filio]

You need to read Koslowski's (2002) experiments on fry acceptance.

I would gladly read anything I can get my hands on, but I have to say I have no idea what you are talking about. Gooogle didn't help much.

If fry are introduced to a female (not the mother) over a period of a few hours

How does that work in practice? Should I put the babies in a small transparent container, so that the female can see them, but not harm them, untill she gets used to them?

 

[Mike Wise]

Not everything worth having is found in the web. Koslowski, Ingo. 2002. "Die Buntbarsche Amerikas Band 2: Apistogramma & Co. Ulmer Verlag GmbH. Essen. 332 p.", in my opinion, it is the best book on apistos out there. It is so good that I translated it from the German and sold ~100 copies with the English translation to hobbyists. Check for comments in the "Search" function on this site. I am not selling the book anymore, but those who buy the book can still buy a translation from me.

Basically you will need to separate the female from newly introduced fry with some sort of separator/partition for several hours to a day until she recognizes the new fry as part of her territory - and then hope for the best.

 

[filio]

The cacatoudes are all gone, so there is no need to move them with the aggies. I can't say I'm disappointed. Just 2 days ago I saw at least 2 of my previous spawn hiding in the bushes :biggrin: They are 2 months old now. Maybe some of the babies made it also. Anyway I would like to increase their chances of survival, so i decided on removing the neon tetras. I will put some dwarf pencil fish instead. My question is about the cory cats. Do you think I can keep them? I know they will gladly eat fry and wigglers, but are they skilled enough to catch free swimmers with the protective parents on the horizon? The corys are small enough for the parents to chase off.

 

[apistobob]

If you want to protect the maximum number of fry I would get rid of the Corys. In my experience they can be deadly on newly free swimming fry. When they get close to the school the female will signal the fry to go down to the bottom where they sit still and the corys can easily get them. Once the Corys learn that the female is with fry they will continue to seek them if they can. The tough plating of the corys give them a lot of protection from attacking Apistos and I have seen corys working the entire area while a female viciously attacks them.

Bob